Making out in the car park, breaking boys’ hearts, and finding community during the pandemic (with Seren Oakley)

seren oakley

Seren Oakley is a multi-disciplinary artist and events organiser whose work is based on queer spaces and elevation of others, which includes marginalised groups like asylum seekers.

Currently based in Leeds, England, she grew up in Swansea, Wales, where she found solace and community at a venue called The Scene, which hosted gigs for under 18s in the early 2010s.

In this episode we talk all about making out in the car park, hosting your own events, breaking boys’ hearts, and how the internet has helped queer people find community throughout the pandemic.

For more on Seren check out her website, her facebook, and her instagram

Seren is also the host of her own show, The Be Nice Podcast, so go give it a listen!


Seren Oakley 0:00
I was cycling to work and just stopped on my bike because I should just text everyone. And like that. So I was like, I’m not gonna end up with a man for the rest of my life. So like, that’s that.

K Anderson 0:15
Hello, I am K Anderson and you are listening to lost spaces, the podcast that mourns the death of queer nightlife. Every episode I talk to a different person about a venue from their past, the memories they’re created there and the people that they used to know seren Oakley is a multidisciplinary artist and events organiser whose work is based on queer spaces, and elevation of others, which includes marginalised groups like asylum seekers. Currently based in Leeds, England, she grew up in Swansea, Wales, where she found solace and community at a venue called the scene, which hosted gigs for under 18 in the early 2010s. Is that what we’re calling them? Not the teens? Not something? Well, anyway, you know what, I’m getting out right? We took all about making out in the car park hosting your own events, breaking boys hearts, and how the internet had helped queer people find community throughout the pandemic.

What’s once you like

Seren Oakley 1:45
people call it the end of the line because that’s where the train and if that keeps it away or like

K Anderson 1:51
sir literally and metaphorically the end of the line or

Seren Oakley 1:55
Yeah, like shitty greatly say, and people like get just a lot of not great things, but people have like a love for it. I think so people from Swansea loves one day, but they love that it’s like shit.

K Anderson 2:10
Oh, is it one of those situations where they’re allowed to complain about how sugar is, but no one else is? Yeah, if

Seren Oakley 2:15
someone else complaint I think people would probably, like kick off. Like there’s a lot of, like internal in Wales, like, like Swansea and Cardiff hate each other. But I think they both hate on themselves

Seren Oakley 2:29
as well.

K Anderson 2:32
And no one knows why they hate each other. It’s just a rivalry from the ages. Yeah, I

Seren Oakley 2:37
think probably that’s like been rallied up by sportsmanship.

K Anderson 2:42
Brilliant sportsmanship. And so was it like growing up there then as a queer person?

Seren Oakley 2:50
Um, I think it was a bit weird. I think you could always tell you like, pretty different. And I think everyone else knew like, I went to Welsh speaking schools. So

K Anderson 3:04
can we have a quick class then? Can you tell me All I know is property paying? Okay, well, what would you like me to say? Today, I’m gonna wear the green dress. Here the vine grisco. dress. dress. dress is dress. I sorry. I just have no second word for dress.

Seren Oakley 3:30
No, not really, a lot of words are like interchange. So like, well, she’s like, I think a lot of English words come from Welsh. And then vice versa. Like I found that the other day actually the word penguin. Like the bird comes from like Welsh. Oh, okay. Well, stylet. So that’s because like Welsh people named it first and they found them first. They have. Maybe they have like white heads, which is what that means.

K Anderson 3:56
Oh, yeah, that’s interesting. Okay, so sorry. You went to a Welsh speaking school?

Seren Oakley 4:01
Yes. So I feel like yeah, that probably had a big effect on how people came out as like gay and stuff because there was a lot less education around like being LGBTQ here. Because we were like, learning everything in wash. So I think the vocabulary and everything was a lot. Like smaller so you’d like knew like the one gay boy in your school. And everyone else was kind of like told they were like, like, they’ll believe like a

K Anderson 4:31
commoner whilst language schools?

Seren Oakley 4:35
I’m not sure is probably a 5050 Oh, okay. Oh, wow. Bad. So I think it’s increasing like with how much money has been given to our schools. So there’s probably more now that I’ve not been there for years. And then so our wealth speaking schools are viewed, like differently to English speaking schools, like are they viewed lesser than or better than or I think it’s quite true. Cuz like most people you’re because of the way English people came over to English people came over to Wales and then it kind of like there was this thing called the Welsh not so like, Welsh speaking people who couldn’t speak English at all weren’t allowed to speak Welsh in school. So and if they did, they had to wear like a big plaque round wooden plaque around their neck this like five year old kids on a chain that said Welsh not, and they’d get like punished. So they like kind of pushed Welsh out of a lot of schools to make room for English like settlers, I guess.

K Anderson 5:33
When was this?

Seren Oakley 5:34
And this is only like a couple 100 years ago. Okay, yeah. And then the Welsh language died off a lot. And now it’s like mandatory. So like, when you go to law school, you’re not allowed to speak English. Unless you’re an English class, okay.

Seren Oakley 5:48
Or you get like detention or something like that. So a lot of kids found it really uncalled to speak Welsh. It was like cooler to be an English school for a lot of people who were like more rebellious, I guess with being like, I don’t want to be told what to do.

K Anderson 6:04
Isn’t that the point of school? And yeah, but do people view like the quality of the education on par?

Seren Oakley 6:13
I think that really depends. Like I knew quite a lot of like, coastal English speaking schools that had a lot of money and had like, really good grades, I guess. But yeah, mine was like, the grounds was like in a council estate. And it was really a mix of people. It was just like, because while speakers I guess we’re just talking it around. So it was like a lot. Yeah, it wasn’t quite based on like, where you live or what catchment it was more just like you go as far as you can’t go to

K Anderson 6:41
school. So is your first language Well, sure. English. Yeah, pretty much is English now because I live in England. But yeah, it was Wow. Ah, how exciting. Um, so you’re saying that, like, in this school, there was one child who was visibly gay. And like, Yeah, he kind of set the the warning signs for anyone else?

Seren Oakley 7:07
Well, I think he was just like, so confident that people will like it’s fine.

K Anderson 7:12
Okay. Okay. Oh, I thought you were saying the opposite. I thought you were saying that because you got bullied so much. Everyone else stayed in the closet?

Seren Oakley 7:21
No, I think everyone else just got bullied quite a lot. And it was like, quite ruthless. So people kind of just quiet, quiet and down there. queerness

K Anderson 7:30
was he’s so confident.

Seren Oakley 7:32
I don’t know. I don’t blame him those great for Yeah, everyone else kind of like, went out of school to find their like, were friends. Yeah, I guess. And that’s kind of like, yeah, we’re queer, queer groups and emo groups and all like that art kind of like little collective. So

K Anderson 7:50
I wonder. I wonder if anyone’s ever done a Venn diagram to see what the overlap between queer and emo is? Because I’m pretty sure like, it must be like, 90% of emo kids who are queer. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah, every time I met a queer person who isn’t? You didn’t have an email face? What?

Seren Oakley 8:10
I guess a lot of the time, they’re people who like find out that or, like, open up about it a bit like I think

K Anderson 8:17
Yeah, so. So you were not out integral? I was? Yes. Oh, you were out. Okay. So like, yeah, seven, or I guess, like 12. What happened?

Seren Oakley 8:32
Well, I only came out to people at school, but then it was kind of like, I’d get like mad stuff. So it was just a case of like, getting rumors spread. More than anything actually happening. I wasn’t like, I like kissing girls. And like, I dated a couple of people, but it was never like, really, like, being queer. It was just being like, pretending I was by knowing I was gay. And then being like, I’m gay, but I will date guys.

K Anderson 8:58
What was that? What was that thought process?

Seren Oakley 9:02
I think it was just because I wasn’t like, totally comfortable with being like, I’m very Queer as like a 14.

K Anderson 9:09
But you you verbalize that you were gay? But you were willing to date guys? Yeah, I think it was like to like looking back on it probably like to not have to deal with like the backlash of like, some homophobia or like, not making friends with people or something. Like because you’re like, if you like, hang out with guys, and you’re right. I might still be interested at that age. I think it like opens you up to making a bit more friends, which is sad. And that’s like a bad reflection on how guys respond at that age. But yeah, so did you do any guys? Yeah, but it was always kind of like, I felt like if you were ago you didn’t have this thing. today.

Seren Oakley 9:52

K Anderson 9:53
did you break any boys hearts then? Yeah, I think I yeah, I made a couple of people cry. And that’s not really Let’s talk about it anyway.

Seren Oakley 10:07
I remember once when I was 17, I don’t know what I was doing. But we used to go to this place like loads of young queer people called the scene and they’d let like under-aged. People have gigs until like, 11pm. So all my mates and play gigs. we’d all go see them the tickets always like three pounds. So we’d all like convince our parents, like, so I tell my parents like, Oh, can you buy us like a bottle of wine for like me and for people that ever would do that? And then we don’t collect under a drink? Yeah, so like, 16 seven. Okay.

K Anderson 10:43
Sorry, I’m being moral police here like your parents bought you wine. Sorry. Yeah, I

Seren Oakley 10:49
think they thought we were all going to consume like, a tiny amount each, but we drink really quickly before the gig. All go in dance, like rock music, and then go outside and all make out like all these little teenagers. So I kind of just, like started hanging out with this guy here in a motorbike and was like, Yeah, cool. Like, whatever. Like, I don’t really know why I’m doing this, but you seem like a nice guy. And then like, take him to one of these gigs and then witness what we kind of like got up to and then started crying. I was like, and I was like, I’m gay. Like

K Anderson 11:24
so what do you mean he witnessed what you got up to? What were you getting up to dancing or making out? Like just making out like, everyone would just be like, sitting around making out? And he cried. Yeah, yeah. How much had you let him on? Or was he just tend to do not at all like

Seren Oakley 11:43
when I dated guys, I’d always say like, I’m not gonna get feelings for you. straight off, like I don’t know how to say. That’s like catnip there.

K Anderson 11:51
That’s like as soon as someone says that you’re like, Oh, I’m gonna make you love me. I do not think that I feel like we are different. Do you do you know the the unobtainable is suddenly like so desirable?

Seren Oakley 12:08
I feel like maybe like when I was a bit younger, and I first like started getting girls, but I think now, I haven’t got the time.

K Anderson 12:19
To make that kind of sense of Oh, no. Even like, somewhere it’s not like a conscious decision. Do you not like just have somewhere in you? That’s like, Huh, we’ll see about that. No, I think I just like like communication. Oh, how boring. Yeah. Sure, like, like a grown up and proper and stuff. But like, okay, so tell me more about so this club was called the city?

Seren Oakley 12:48
Yeah. So it was run by a guy called Karen, who? I think he still runs venues in Swansea. Yeah, he was in his 20s. And he was kind of like friends with a bunch of the older ones in our group pay gas. And wood. Yeah, let us like, hosts. Well, I wouldn’t host them. But my mates would like host events. And he kind of like, made the space for like, a lot of like, yeah, kids to go, I guess because all the straight people at school. We’re going to like these, like underage nightclub five things. There is like, this place called Oceana, which was like, similar but they were wore like little dresses and dance. Music. So I think all the queer people who like cigarettes, like when? Yeah, snakes made out.

K Anderson 13:40
But it wasn’t explicitly clear.

Seren Oakley 13:44
No, no, just kind of like people who were cool with it. And then, yeah, like a lot of like, Trans and Queer you,

K Anderson 13:54
cuz I’m really fascinated about how that kind of thing happens. Like when something just gets taken over. By queer people. Like, it’s not like, that’s not been the intention of why it’s been set up. But suddenly, I don’t know if it’s word of mouth, or I don’t know if it’s like someone who is influential within a circle of people says, this is where we’re going now. Yeah, do you like

Seren Oakley 14:24
I think it was like, with this place in the group, like the group of people in Swansea that I hung out with, I think, like, everyone kind of, like, found some solidarity and like, creative outlets. So I think it was like, a lot of queer people inherently were like, okay, yeah, like, I like art. And I like music and like, that felt like something people could bond over without having to be like, oh, let’s talk about being queer. Or let’s like, talk about how we’re okay with being queer. But I think those conversations just like came with like, kind of like finding people I think a lot of people were like, introverted at school and stuff as well. So it gave them a place to be quite like extroverted. I think that alcohol like probably a lot.

K Anderson 15:14
And are there any queer people who aren’t creative? Because that’s like the only way you find people. Like, it must be heartbreaking to just be like, not have that way of starting conversations. What do you know? feel sorry for yourself and write songs in your bedroom? Yeah, yeah, I think that’s what we so and then, like, so they’re making out just happen organically?

Seren Oakley 15:45
Yeah, I think because we were all like, really good friends anyway. And like, there was no like way for young people who were like, oh, and bio engage, like, go out meet people outside of the small group of queer people in swap. But I don’t think anyone really wanted to date each other because we were friends. So I guess a lot of the time we make that because then we go back to like college or something the next day and be like, Oh, my God, I can’t believe will. Like did that. Even though we do that? Mostly?

K Anderson 16:21
Again, like, was there not anyone who ended up getting their feelings hurt?

Seren Oakley 16:26
Yeah, probably. I feel like there’s not used to it. I definitely remember crying those gigs. But just drinking a lot. I think we will just reckless teenagers. And feel like this is gone. Just like confession. Swansea.

K Anderson 16:48
See, this is okay. So this is why I’m about like, shocked that they were not more broken hearts, or that you don’t have any recollections of them. Because when you’re that age, like everything is so much more intense. And everything is so exciting. And everything like you just feel everything so much. Deep, more deeply. Yeah, you know, and, you know, I’m kind of like, I kind of want to mock the guy who had a motorbike and cried. But at the same time, I can understand like, why he was feeling so many so many feelings.

Seren Oakley 17:23
Yeah, okay. I think. Yeah, I felt like probably because there’s like, there was so much going on. And there was so it was like such a World Wind of people just like, every weekend, everyone was doing stuff and like, even in the week, and then getting drunk in the daytime and everything was like, like 100 miles per hour and like lots of socializing. And then like a lot of like crashes. I think it all kind of like melted into one. Like, overall as a social.

K Anderson 17:48
What do you mean by crash? Like,

Seren Oakley 17:51
like hangovers? And like our gowns and all that kind of thing? Yeah.

K Anderson 17:55
Yeah, I guess that does Delve. You’re feeling somewhat when you’re drunk or hungover? Yeah. So then, so going back to you coming out. So you came out, but you were Oh, say like, Hey, I still gonna date guys. Yeah,

Seren Oakley 18:16
I felt like I made the bold decision to come out. And then it was still like, very, like half and half. Do I really want to like fully come out. And then like, try and convince myself, I think it was just internalized homophobia and hatred. being like, maybe you’re just like, attention seeking. Maybe you do like I was, but you have to like guys, because like, why wouldn’t you get good friends? Like, and then like, not really. And then still knowing deep down being like, no, this is not fun.

K Anderson 18:46
Oh, that’s so interesting. So you say you came out to friends at 12? When did you come out to parents? Sorry, that’s me making an assumption that Yeah,

Seren Oakley 18:55
I did. I Well, it was quite a lame way of doing it. I think at 17. I was like, I was cycling to work and just stopped on my bike, because I should just text everyone. And like that. So I was like, I’m not gonna end up with a man for the rest of my life. So like, that’s that. And then everyone’s like, yeah, we knew and I was like, No, he didn’t.

K Anderson 19:20
So was it like a group text? Now? Just like copy paste? Yeah. And he did this like on the side of the road where you were cycling to work? Yeah. Like, how seven in the morning, like, and then did you have your phone? Did you have to like turn your phone off for work? Or did you have it on you?

Seren Oakley 19:39
I just had it on me. I told my boss what I done because they I was already out to them. Like, and yeah, my family was just like, yeah, cool. Like,

K Anderson 19:50
thumbs up emojis.

Seren Oakley 19:51
Yeah, like, it’s still kind of like I think a bit shocked and a bit like okay, well, we’re that’s that. I think they I slowly came around to it because like, my brother’s gay, my cousin’s Queer as well. So they have like, no choice, but to like, get on board reading.

K Anderson 20:11
And so your brother’s gay? Is it the two of you? Or are there more siblings? Just the two of us? And And is he older?

Seren Oakley 20:18
He’s a gay younger than me. Who came out first? May and then I actually came out for him at a wedding, which was like, chaos thing. Oh, that’s not good. No, no. Because I

K Anderson 20:29
was gonna ask, and I’m probably asking you to speak on behalf of your brother right now, which is not right. But other people have said to me, like when they’ve had like a gay sibling. They felt like there’s more pressure to be straight.

Seren Oakley 20:45
Oh, wow. I don’t know if either of us have felt that because we’re very close to like, we I think we’ve become a lot closer now that we were like, well, we’re queer. We have this, like, shared heritage that isn’t like from our family, but it’s something we share. So now we need to kind of like we need to be friends and like, get like, get to know each other better. I think so. Yeah. It’s been quite nice. But neither of us have been, like, have spoken about feeling pressured. And I don’t think he felt pressured. Like, the only reason I came out for him was like, because he was cheating on some guy with some guy. I, that’s probably as much as you’d want me to say. Guys, and my, my grandma was right behind this. So I just turned around and was like, did you hear any of that? And yeah, that was kind of that. Wait,

K Anderson 21:37
wait, what? So So you were you were like chastising him for his behavior. And then your grandmother overheard?

Seren Oakley 21:44
Yeah, yeah. So then I kind of just, like outed him through being like, you’re being a horrible person. Like, you deserve to be outed. And he was like, No, and then I did apologize. And then because I was like, that wasn’t my place, I guess. Yeah. Yeah.

K Anderson 21:59
But and it was at a wedding. Yeah. I mean, that’s what weddings you for. Right? drama. Yeah, exactly. If you’re gonna do it. Yeah, I mean, maybe it’s like a generational thing. I think that there’s when you are in a family where there’s pressure for you to reproduce and have children, like 20 years ago, it seemed unfathomable to be queer, and I have a family. So it’s, it’s probably like people from that generation that felt more pressure or felt more guilt for their parents, if all the kids were queer. But you know, Katie Lange? Oh, I’m gonna get this wrong. She’s one of four and three of them are queer. Just a little fact for you. Okay. Wow. apropos of nothing. Yeah. So, so coming out was fairly unremarkable.

Seren Oakley 22:56
Yeah, it was more of I think the only backlash I really got was from school. But

Seren Oakley 23:01

Seren Oakley 23:03
like, whatever. I don’t even know those people anymore. So it was quite nice.

K Anderson 23:06
What was it? Was it kind of garden variety? bullying?

Seren Oakley 23:12
Yeah, like I had kind of like some of the more like outspoken girls would in like it class get pictures of like cats up on their screen and be like, Oh, do you like that kind of vibe? as like a joke about like piercing? Oh, okay. And yeah, so I’d be like, just like hyper embarrassed, like, Oh my god, like reading and just lies about me get like, I had a much more exciting sex life based on what was going.

Seren Oakley 23:40
Well, actually,

K Anderson 23:41
like, Whoa, how you doing in their imaginations?

Seren Oakley 23:44
Just the fly? Apparently me and my best friend. At one point were like having sex on the beach at the age of like, 13. And just like mad stuff. So I was like, No, actually, we went for like a picnic. And it was just like, yeah, a lot more mundane. And someone bought me a Bible. Yeah, and called me a monster. Basically, it was in Welsh is wild. No, it was, but they didn’t give out Welsh Bible.

K Anderson 24:11
That’s so weird. I remember having a conversation with someone who was like, in my first like, job, and she was like, so this is when I lived in Australia. And she was like, in her 40s or something at that stage. And we bonded because we were both from Scotland, like both both of our families emigrated. And so like she kind of was like a, you know, not a mother figure but like, an armed maybe, like, matriarchal. And, yeah. And, like, it’s not like I was knocked out or anything. It just hadn’t occurred to her that I was and when she found out I was gay, she was she’d said to me, like, she was really religious. That’s why like the Bible thing sparked this memory. She said to me, Yeah, there’s just something not right with you. And it’s like, I mean, first of all, you said this to me at work, like what the fuck? HR laws? And what it was just like, why would you feel the need to say that just someone I don’t understand people’s religion, compelling them to just be total assholes?

Seren Oakley 25:23
I really don’t think all the time. It’s people’s religion that there are a lot of very nice religious people. Well, yeah, I think it’s like, insecure people who happen to have a religion and then just like, blame their religion, or their inability to accept.

K Anderson 25:43
You know, we live in a heteronormative culture, and religions are generally far more heteronormative than the general population. And if you want to believe I can see why believing everything wholeheartedly is like, the thing you do. And you don’t question. Yeah, question. I’ve been thing where people have been, yeah, that had to be forced to sitting in their bedrooms, crying, writing songs. And the whole verb of the most annoying thing about it was her daughter, then, like, six months later, I had a gay best friend, and she changed her mind about everything. Like, watch her I’m not, I’m not fantastic enough for you to change your mind. Right? He is, anyway. And so when did you leave Swansea

Seren Oakley 26:37
I left one day at 19 after doing like a foundation degree in art and design. Which was like very much like I need to leave Swansea. So I

Seren Oakley 26:47
need to do an art degree

Seren Oakley 26:48
to be able to leave Swansea and then just show someone that was like, 250 miles away?

K Anderson 26:56
And was that Fair enough? Cuz you’ve gone further?

Seren Oakley 27:01
Yeah, I think so. I think leads was just like, somewhere I didn’t know at all. So I was like, I’ll just go for like the unknown. And then if I don’t like it, there’s like, no, like, tie to it, I guess.

K Anderson 27:13
And, and so do you remember, like your first days in Leeds and like, what the difference was between Swansea and Leeds? Yeah, I

Seren Oakley 27:21
think that it, I guess I was just very confident at that point. And I was still very into drugs. And I was very much like, this is me, this is what I’m doing. I live with your respectable but like, I want the space to be able to do what I’m doing. And then I like,

K Anderson 27:36
that’s a good way to make friends. Yeah.

Seren Oakley 27:40
And I kind of like, made a point, I was like, I have to like really push myself, I guess. So started organizing events, and started like trying to meet more people. And like, yeah, find different art communities and find people who were like, excited to do things that are doing as well.

K Anderson 27:59
And so what, like, what is the queer scene in Leeds, like,

Seren Oakley 28:06
if you’re judging it based on like, drag and stuff, which I think a lot of queer people in needs, there’s quite a big drag scene in terms of like, art performance, and like artists. So I think there’s a lot of like, by girls who make earrings. And then, like trans activists and artists, a lot of illustrators, I think, and then there’s a lot of like, just a mesh of everyone doing drugs. There’s a lot of like, like, show bar drag queens, who’d like to report style that kind of, like your stereotype, I guess. And then alternatively, to that, you’ve got clubs like wolf chambers, where people you get like, the underground people who are kinda like everyone’s doing, like, they’re in a house or the doing like, different kinds of drugs. So it’s, like more non binary more, like playing with gender instead of Yeah, so like, I think, and I think that’s kind of like, where, like, my base is more in terms of like, Yeah, and I think that like links into like, the club scene a lot as well.

K Anderson 29:17
And so with the queer scene changing a lot with like, venues closing and things shifting, do you think that’s a bad thing? Or do you think like, that’s just the way life goes?

Seren Oakley 29:32
I think is a sad thing more than it is a bad thing, especially like with a pandemic is kind of helped a lot of queer people find each other online. So if you’ve had to like get online and find people maybe they wouldn’t usually like meet we’ll go up to in person. So a lot of people have made like, drag friends and stuff or like, yeah, even the events I’ve organized. I’ve been like, I’ve got quite a lot of like drag and drop things. So like because I’m a life drawing instructor. On the weekends and times,

Seren Oakley 30:02
I’ve like

Seren Oakley 30:02
done these like DJ set club night things. But there’ll be like a drag performer who models for everyone to draw for, like 30 minutes. Unlike because I wanted to, like get a wider range, like a wide range of like, drag in it. So people aren’t like, okay, it’s just drag kings or it’s like showgirls, I’ve met like loads of people, or like new people who would like, Who wouldn’t go to a big bar and be like, I want to do a drag performance, but people who were like I’ve been doing dragging my own on my own in the bedroom, like, yes. And now I want to, like, do something. And this is like a good intro. So I think the internet’s help people, like form new communities. So like, when everyone can like eventually go out again. When is that? They will have like, yeah, they’ll have people, I guess.

K Anderson 30:50
Yeah. And so what does like, what is it important that we focus on as a community going forward? Um,

Seren Oakley 31:00
I guess like listening to everyone? Probably. And like, if something’s a bit different from what you’re doing, like, question it, or like, create more network. So yeah, I don’t know. And if someone’s already doing something that you’re, you want to do maybe like, just help help assist on that, and then do something else.

K Anderson 31:22
So listen to everyone don’t step on people’s toes.

Seren Oakley 31:25
Yeah, yeah. as well. Like, if you are in a safe space, for some, there’s like an opportunity to be with queer people maybe like preface it with like a check in and then aftercare check in, and just like see, like, what can we do to keep this maintain this change this? Even if it’s just like hanging out with a friend or something? I think, yeah, it’s all like communication, like, the more people communicate, the easier it becomes to just like, do these things, I guess.

K Anderson 31:52
But do we will get communication fatigue?

Seren Oakley 31:55
Maybe, probably, I guess you’ve always got to like, give yourself some time. Like around what is

K Anderson 32:02
the difficulty in Britain as well as the way that British people communicate? His passive aggressive, or it’s just passive? passive? Yeah. Like, if someone ever says to me, how are you? And I don’t say, I’m fine. They like, just don’t know what to do with that information. Like just just what?

Seren Oakley 32:25
I’ve started changing it like, so I’ll be like, How you feeling? And let people answer that. And then like, when I’m with people, and I can see them thinking, but they’re not communicating with me. I’ll be like, oh, what are you thinking? And just ask it lots. And then people get a bit like, at first, like you asked this question a lot, and then they kind of like start just answering. And it’s quite nice. I

K Anderson 32:46
guess. It depends, like, you know, sometimes when you start dating someone, and then they keep saying to you, oh, what do you think? You’re just like, shut up? Shut up. Like Yeah, that’s, that’s not the right time to ask that question. you’ve not had the experience like with asking it. When someone Yeah, when you started dating someone and, like, just super intense and they just want to know everything about

Seren Oakley 33:15
us. And I’m like, Oh, my God. Let’s get to everyone. I definitely ask it to my girlfriend. Oh, oh, okay. Well, I

K Anderson 33:25
mean, good job bring our dating.

Seren Oakley 33:28

Seren Oakley 33:29
I think the difference might be like with my girlfriend asked her what she’s feeling as well, so it’s probably even more intense.

Seren Oakley 33:36

K Anderson 33:43
Do you have any memories of your own queer scene that you want to share? Well, if you do, please get in touch. I want to create the biggest online record of people’s memories and stories about queer clubbing, go to last spaces podcast.com and find the section share a lost space and tell me what you got up to. Bonus points obviously for embarrassing photos. You can also find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter as last spaces pod. For more on seren check out pulp quality.com and I’ll make sure to include all of her socials in the show notes for this episode. Theron is also the host of her own show, the be nice podcast. And if you check it out, you might discover that a little someone has been a guest on a previous episode. It’s me, even if it wasn’t already painfully obvious. It was me. No spaces is not only a podcast about a concept record as well. I have been writing songs about queer venues and the people who used to live their lives there. And we’ll be releasing songs over the next year. You can hear the first single well groomed boys, which is also playing underneath my talking or right this very second. On all streaming platforms. If you liked this episode I would really appreciate if you subscribe, leave a review on the podcast player of your choice or just tell people who you think might be interested. I am K Anderson and you have been listening to lost spaces.