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Princess Julia’s history of Queer London Clubbing – Part 2 (1980s – now-ish)

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More rambling (her words, not mine!) goodness from the one and only Princess Julia.

In this episode, which covers the mid-80s until now, we talk about her first steps in to the world of DJ-ing, the gothic movement, and Princess Julia ponders whether she was the world’s first bio-queen! Taking in clubs such as The Embassy, Crash, Ghetto, and Kinky Gerlinky, there’s sure to be a club you remember! 

Follow Princess Julia on Instagram

Princess Julia  00:00

Well, I hope that you’ve got like an interesting shy and not like a complete ramble.

K Anderson  00:13

I am K Anderson and you are listening to lost spaces, a podcast that mourns the death of queer nightlife. Every episode I talk to a different person about a venue from their past, the memories they created there, and the people that they used to know. This is part two of my interview with princess Julia, DJ, model, columnist, and an all around sweetheart. And if you think that we went slightly off topic on the first episode, then you have not heard anything yet. This episode starts with taboo, and amongst others, sneaks through the embassy, the ghetto pop stars and crash. So I wanted to like ask, do you ever experience any ageism?

Princess Julia  01:31

up? The only ages ages are my experiences put on myself by myself.

K Anderson  01:39

Oh, okay.

Princess Julia  01:39

So I may not sort of thing. Are you asking me? But I find that I think it’s just because I’m still so involved in things that are going on. That it if there is anything, right that it dissipates pretty quick, because I’m not, I’m not really hard to conventional kind of life in a sense, because I’ve dedicated my life to nightclubs, and creative spaces, and that sort of thing. And I haven’t thought, I think when I was about 15, I thought I should get married. And then I realised by the time I was 18, that that was just brainwashed, and that I don’t have to be like that to be a proper person. So basically, I’ve not really gone into any conventional type ideas. I have been married twice, but I’m married to gay men, because it was before gay marriage. And so it was so they could stay together. Okay, before gay marriage happened,

K Anderson  03:04

because of immigration because of

Princess Julia  03:06

immigration and things they wanted to stay together. So I felt that our could just be a conduit of love. I am romantic and I am into you know, if you find your soulmate or not. So you want to spend your life with that’s great. I mean to it, I don’t think there should be any sort of boundaries. germane so I don’t, you know, a marriage is that if you want to get married, do you want to be together, you shouldn’t have to have to sign a bit of paper, we live in a world where you have to do all those things. You know, I haven’t really bought into any organised religion, because I can’t stand that sort of shit. And lot, you know, into being who ever you want to be. And I have always believed in a gender fluid society. In fact, if one of the things come out of the new Romantic era was the idea of dressing and being an exploring whatever sex or sexuality you are, and can live your life as outside of the conforms that society hen’s you in into, I’ve always had that idea. And I’ve led my life like that really. And into all the thing all the good modern things that are going on now. into the internet, all you know, gender pronouns and all the rest of it.

K Anderson  04:57

Yes, yeah.

Princess Julia  04:59

Do you know what I’m a Because I just think it’s so a lot of the way that especially women, why like train women at school is that all brainwashing? And then a fade to say that all religions brainwash you into some? And if you’re a woman, you are a breeding machine.

K Anderson  05:21

Yes. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, I just taught,

Princess Julia  05:27

I don’t really want to gain there really, I mean, I could go into it that show, everyone is gonna agree with me. But I fail people like David Hoyle, who has been pioneering really brilliant ideas for years gets my total admiration for standing on stage and say that science certain things I do believe, you know, is considerate to the human condition. And to be in a proper a fulfilled human being. And, you know, it doesn’t mean that you’ve got to be in a heterosexual relationship with 2.4 babies to be a successful person. That’s complete bollocks. Yeah, it’s

K Anderson  06:17

total rubbish.

Princess Julia  06:18

You can be a freak like me. I’m afraid I don’t feel like I’m free. But you can be whatever you want to be. Want to be in the community that I mean, is very important, obviously, to me, and ask Paul Maher community, they support me. And yeah, I’m quite happy with that.

K Anderson  06:47

So we’re, we’re, we’re yet to be quite. And so the I guess the similarities are that the different person for one of a better term with Steve strange and Leigh Bowery

Princess Julia  06:59

I mean, I tend not to do comparisons because I don’t not really comparing things because I think people are really different, you know, like, different ideas. So that I mean, yeah, they’ve both had from people. Yeah, as far as that guy’s got different sorts of people were like,

K Anderson  07:20

yeah, yeah, I guess I’m not trying. Ah, I guess I’m not trying to compare in the sense of them as people but just in terms of that, and again, about the media, like focusing in on one person and Yeah, kind of the face of

Princess Julia  07:39

Yeah, I mean, in a sense, you know, Lee, large, caught the media and in enjoyed his notoriety, and especially enjoyed it. When Lee became a muse for Lucien Freud. He loved that rock roll. And, and, and I think it’s very important that Lee’s work was taken out of the clubs and put in an art gallery set its setting, such as that installation at the Anthony d’Offay gallery. It just gave the whole idea and another perspective, and you’ve got to remember this was before club kids were invented. You know, really, the term club kids didn’t really count. It’s a new yorky type thing. And it didn’t really come to the sort of 90s Yeah, the early 90s. And les was involved in part of that show, as well, you know, so yeah, so that conversation between New York, clubbing and London and UK clubbing, was definitely there’s always been that sort of parallel going on. There’s always been that one thing going on. Yeah.

K Anderson  08:54

So it’s kind of interesting, but and so tubu what kind of songs?

Princess Julia  09:00

Well, actually, because, you know, there were sort of similar electronic compositions that were being played the same sort of music that was being played in the late 70s. But it was a much more it was it was still like, your dis electronic, Euro disco, which we did have at the Blitz as well. People like Marauder but it was it was a whole new wave of it as well on top of on top of that, and Jeffrey used to splice up music and create his own sort of soundtracks and set this actually so did Mark Lawrence, they used to really enjoy doing that and they went on to DJ at the daisy chain, which happened a few years later and really evolved that idea, you know, splicing up cassette tapes into making Sort of seamless sort of soundscape? Yeah,

K Anderson  10:05

he’s very remote work involved in

Princess Julia  10:08

the flat with Jeffrey all the time. So tight do things up

10:17

on the four track.

Princess Julia  10:19

Because also that was another thing with making around music that now instead of having to go to a big studio to make these, yeah, you could actually have your bedroom for tracks set in and make your own stuff and loop back to your heart’s content. There wasn’t actually a Lord say you couldn’t use half of a track if you want it and call it your own. That didn’t come till a bit later. Okay, they made a law where you could only use like a 62nd or even 60 seconds of a track. You know, if you had a drum loop that or a break you wanted to use, that’s really where half music came from. Yeah, that’s how that started. Yeah, there were lots of spin off nights, obviously from winter boot ended and ended quite abruptly once again. There’s lots of various stories around that. And you have to ask Sue Tilly? Are they sort of theories or story now they’re real? They’re real stories. And you’ll have to ask CCTV is the authoritarians are my Yeah. So but but out of that, the other night sort of started up and that’s I think there was one there was one called dissension. And that was one, there was quite a few things are starting up outside of that.

K Anderson  11:50

And it was one of those the daisy chain that you mentioned.

Princess Julia  11:53

Well, it wasn’t really, it wasn’t part of it. It was, yeah, it was the same sort of people involved in it. And that’s really officially that’s where I started DJing. And the daisy chain was the fridge. I actually started DJing at the wag when I used to work there every now and again. There was a night there called Total fashion victims in the early 80s that we sometimes used to do the Steven Lee Narges to do it. And I used to DJ at it. There’s so many clubs in the world. Yeah, really? gaming along,

K Anderson  12:29

so and so. So you you started DJing there was that just kind of dipping your toe in. And then

Princess Julia  12:34

basically it was the the resident DJs were Mark Lawrence and Geoffrey Hinton. And then every now and again, I do a lot of warm up there. And Jeffrey went away for a month. And so like and then so I sort of stepped in. I’m just playing all these records. I was sharing a flat with Jeffrey by them. So it’s fine.

K Anderson  13:05

Why did he know that you took his record? Okay, good.

Princess Julia  13:11

never forgive me. Anyway, so that, yes, that that all happened. And the daisy chain was, as I said, at the fridge in bricks them that was every Tuesday once again, the school nights. And it was run by a person called Jimmy Foxx. And actually, it was quite a sort of breakthrough, sort of marvellous night and Jimmy is the book all sorts of people like people like Eartha Kitt. Oh, wow. No. So we you know, I remember it very well and early take that.

K Anderson  13:52

When they were still like in lots of like row.

Princess Julia  13:57

I mean, it was really, and it was where Leigh Bowery did the enema show. Oh my god. to base it on, you know, I got a small splashtop Um, yeah. It was quite an outrageous. Mine, man. Yes, it was. And that club happened in the 80s 8687 88. It went on for years actually. And it was run around by Andrew and Susan. She’s just such as a ski. Can’t say the name. Just off ski. Andrew and Susan, she’s off ski. They owned the fridge and people like Jane County. See him lived in London, then we’re there all the time. And Angie Bowie and things like that going on. Yeah, that’s amazing, actually, so.

K Anderson  15:13

So about your DJ Ram. So you started properly DJing. About that time around that time. Yeah,

Princess Julia  15:19

late 80s, late 86 and mid 80s. Early.

K Anderson  15:23

So what got you into it? Well, I

Princess Julia  15:25

guess. I mean, I basically done most jobs that were to do in a nightclub. I did the coat check at the Blitz club before George. Then things like that. I’ve never really worked behind the bars. I’m not very good at that. But I’ve done the door a few times, and things like that. And my life was in clubs. I mean, I was going to clubs, so and then I did the coat, check it to boot actually, as well. Okay. And then I was watching people DJing, I thought, well, actually, I can do that. as well. Actually. I’ve got I’ve got most of the music. And you can just borrow Jeff Jeffries. So I think I’m the only person that could because it’s quite precious about it.

K Anderson  16:19

Well, I mean, yeah, yeah.

Princess Julia  16:20

as important. Yeah. It’s very important. Anyway, and so what can I do pay homage to Jeffrey always as my major inspiration. You know, so I just have a very much one of those sort of people that believes that if you have an idea, you should have a go at doing it. And even if you’re not really that good at it, it doesn’t really matter. It means you succeeded in some sort of way. Even if it’s an optimum level.

K Anderson  16:46

Yes, it’s better than doing.

Princess Julia  16:48

Everyone can be a DJ, I don’t know what the mystery is about it. And it was very mysterious in those days. And my god, it was so mysterious, but it was actually really easy.

K Anderson  16:58

Especially if you took Rudy’s approach and just turn it around?

Princess Julia  17:01

Well, I didn’t do that. I did actually persevere matching in the end.

K Anderson  17:11

And to what kind of what kind of feeling do you get from DJing?

Princess Julia  17:15

I just think it’s nice to be able to share, like, music that you like, with other people that they might like, have create an atmosphere. There’s lots of different levels of why DJing is so much you do it. No, you should have a guy. Well, why so?

K Anderson  17:34

So So can Jeffrey, lend me

Princess Julia  17:36

a care in the community kind of aspect, isn’t it? I mean, you’re giving a wonderful taste. Yeah, hopefully other people like it. And I’m not snobby about what I play, I’ll play. I do Sundays at the glory most every Sunday. And I’m kind of spoiled there, but it’s just the path. I say just the path. But I mean, I just you know, it’s a pub atmosphere, on a Sunday, on the on the first floor, and on the ground floor, I should say. And, you know, I can play a very eclectic type of set of music. So I mean, I’ve just basically go all over the shop relay site, within a realm of music, but I do play the, you know, a few modern things, quite modern things, I can easily lapse into all sorts of things, you know, from stuff, you know, from the new Romantic era, or the disco era, you know, you know, just my, my area of expertise and love is anything to do with electronica, quite frankly, that is where I love that music so much. And today, a thing I find quite amazing is that that kind of music is never really dated. It never really sounds totally nostalgic. I mean, obviously, there are tracks that are nostalgic because they’ve been with us for 50 years. But it never sounds out of date. I mean, go to horse meat discount. It’s still got that energy level. That is so fabulous. That’s my opinion. Anyway,

K Anderson  19:29

so we are we’re going way off topic. Yeah. Where were we? Yeah, we were like by we were

Princess Julia  19:33

Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so then from that, okay, so I was involved quite a lot with lots of different clubs. After a while that was going on to one of which was kinky linky. I also was involved in at play nation, which Luke Howard who’s the DJ resident DJ at horsemeat. This guy and I we were resident on the Sunday Night, cop night in Covent Garden called queer nation. run by Patrick lilla Don’t laugh. And so did that. And then, from all those things I started, the life of a DJ sort of exploded, and it became like a sort of proper thing to do. And from that I ended up travelling around Europe quite a lot and DJing in different clubs, all around and about in the 90s and not the MC CD out and things like that. And then I quite often worked with Wayne shires, who started doing nights he did a night called sex. Over at the cafe depero that was one night at tight club. But then he also had his own club space, the bar Industria. And in the end, he went on towards the end of the 90s. He had his own night at the arches in voxel cool crash. Oh, yeah. And I was like resident there, as well say, Oh, yeah. I’ve kept busy.

K Anderson  21:19

us. Yeah. Are we able to quickly talk about chunky? Monkey didn’t know,

Princess Julia  21:24

I think he got linky Yeah. I can keep killing key was a club a one night of the week club, and it was a dressing up night. And it gets at the very end of the 80s. And it was run by Michael Kostis and Glinda call Steve. And they had a shop called world. And the world archive still exists. It’s at David street market and you can go and see Michael and pick his brains about it. That but it was a kind of international monthly, disco type night. And people like Amanda Lear. He’s common form and things like that. And I was resident DJ, so it was Rachel all burn. Martin confusion was a resident DJ there. And we had guests on as well. And it started off at this little club called legends in Burlington street but it soon eclipsed that and went to the hedgy Hall highs of Leicester Square Empire

K Anderson  22:30

Oh wow. Oh

Princess Julia  22:31

room. If you can imagine such a thing. And it went there and then it moves. Yeah. And then it moves into that the and went on for some years and we did sort of go around with it with some of the drag queens and put the night on initially and things but yeah, it was kind of really beyond drag was encouraged. of any kind. It was a big dressing up night tasty Tim used to do the door. Roy ROI Inc, you know, from over the eagle. It was a big extravaganza. And Michael Glinda used to travel a lot with the shop, because the shop was a conglomeration of their nickname knickknacks, or I should say knickknacks. But it was more than that. artefacts and treasures from around the

23:29

world. And,

Princess Julia  23:34

and in a sense, the club reflected that was a truly international affair. We had sambhar dances that Michael Glinda was obsessed with how Brazilian sandbar school parade. Yeah, sighs It was really always very exciting. And it happened once a month. And people that you never thought would ever do drag did drag was hilarious. Everyone, there was always a bit of a loose kind of theme. But yeah, it was really quite a beyond night. Alas, Glinda is with us no longer but as I mentioned, Michael Kostis is there at the Davis street store. So we’re we’re we

K Anderson  24:22

can keep going. You

Princess Julia  24:23

can keep getting q that’s just amazing. Yeah. So these are all kind of nights that have happened that obviously don’t happen anymore. But the clubs that they were in most of the clubs are still there actually. So I could take you on a tour

K Anderson  24:45

and carry the umbrella and like a

Princess Julia  24:46

tour. That’s bang still bangs not there. Is it all Tottenham Court like that’s all gone? No. sigh Yeah, some of it’s not there anymore.

K Anderson  24:59

Can we talk about the end embassy.

Princess Julia  25:01

The Embassy was a club in one streets. Is it new Bond Street, I just look it up. It was on the Piccadilly end of Bond Street, and we used to go there on Sundays, actually. And it was a disco. Very late 70s. And there were waiters with roller skates on. getting confused cross diver. Now I’m pretty sure they all have little shorty shorts on.

K Anderson  25:37

That’s basically 70

Princess Julia  25:40

Yeah, that’s what he say that they did that time some sometimes they did, but we thought it was quite funny. So it wasn’t like, normal take when I think of what people wore in the 70s. It was like bondage trousers. Life.

K Anderson  26:01

Yeah, of course,

Princess Julia  26:02

parachute tops and things. And then I thought, well, I don’t know what mainstream people will. Wrong. Obviously, in the disguise, there were like, a disco a vibe. And then obviously, there was your clone Queenie type look. So it’s quite a mixture of things going on. What I was going

K Anderson  26:25

to ask you before, because you said you just used to go to gigs, and then go to some sombrero where the embassy was there, like lots of overlap between the punk and the disco scene. Okay, because

Princess Julia  26:39

basically, that the punk thing, which was sort of the mid 70s, for like two or three years, there wasn’t really anything after you get to a gig that attend quite early, like 11 or something. So there wasn’t really anything to go after any way to go after. So a lot of the gay clubs or underground sort of gay clubs were open. So you would go to these places all get, you know, go to like, you know, the gay scene or nose coat, and things like that. And, you know, places, you know, like the black cap as well. Actually, there weren’t as many obviously, there weren’t as many clubs. nights going on. In those days. London is a much more densely populated city. So you’d have to find out about these things really through word it was a word of mouth really. And my plans before you sit outside

K Anderson  27:42

until I know the destination and wouldn’t have any

Princess Julia  27:48

documentation of unless you stopped off at this photo booth on the why of what you look like and where you regardless. Horrible. But so you’d see Pete like punks going to discos. Yeah, I was a campout. Look. Oh, that’s really interesting. Yeah. And in fact, somebody that I knew Jean October, he was a punk rocker was actually a rim boy. Who should you know, he was totally out. When it was the camp, sort of punky discovery look in there sort of like things 7677 Yeah. So looking back on like this in this potted history of queer queer London, we haven’t even got to the naughties. Have Why do you want to get Yeah, let’s talk a little bit about the Nautica.

K Anderson  28:53

Did we did we cover off the 90s? So

Princess Julia  28:54

we sort of have we talked about crash, we talked about voxel. We didn’t talk about darky. But that is a favourite two that I think we must pay homage to Yes. With Raiders wives and everything. And that’s place it’s still going. I think that’s amazing, isn’t it? It’s fantastic. And then we have to talk about what the Gothic movement which was started in that in the early 80s. But it really came out of punk and the new romantic style. And that was run by a guy called Simon Hobart. He was one of the people that that ran that night. It was a fabulous clean and he later went on to open and take over a club that he called the ghetto. And that was in the early noughties. So you see how things come around. People come around. and grow up in clubs and then they run their own club, you know, like do their own things. And say Simon, he ran a night called pop stars. That was really very important because it was very underground he sort of indie scene and tied into the whole Britpop thing, but in a really camp way. And we last go into that one. I mean, that was amazing. That was a club that started up and that was with the readers wives and with Leslie lash, who now owns the retro bar. Oh, okay. Yeah.

K Anderson  30:45

Continue to pop says I know it from being at the scholar. Was it somewhere else?

Princess Julia  30:50

Well, yeah, it was in a locker warehouse the space up in Holborn. Okay, I can’t remember the exact thing you’d have to probably talk to the readers was you just get them in. That’d be so exciting. sort. Because they really get to know they’re sort of the thing that I flit around a bit, but they’re very focused. Anyway, so. So yeah, the ghetto was really one of those. I loved it there. And then we ended up doing a night there. The COC. Okay, obviously, Johnny slat, who was part of the Simon however, the top part of the Batcave, which was the the crucible should we say, of they Gothic movement, which that whole Gothic things are having a bit of a renaissance at the moment. And Jonny slot actually does a night called Berlin Berlin. But this is another great club that I sometimes that’s just started up that I went to the first one it was about two or three months ago, at the electro works. Oh my god, it was so much fun. And it’s run by us by this person called under new bed. just snip edit that in. Because I’ve got to be appropriate. Power my hand. It’s called rice. Okay, this is not, it’s really good. You can just edit that all out if you want. Because I was just there directing me. They’re off. But I’m just pointing out that how people you know, Johnny slap was part of the Batcave scene of the early 80s. And it’s still quite, you know, even though it doesn’t live in London anymore is still sort of involved in contemporary club life. So I feel that there’s a place for everyone in club land. And so get her around the car. Oh, yeah. So I was involved. Basically the ghetto the night we did there was a Friday night. And it was around by Wayne shires and Jim Stanton. Wine was running, like the substation, and crash bar Industria. And those sort of nights. And Jim was DJing and starting to run, design things and then started to run horse meat disco, with James Hill out. So they started running that, while we were doing the COC actually have a bit through that and then and they had some really great nights on different nights every night of the week. seven nights a week. So that little basement club, such as what there was nag, nag, nag, of course. Did you did use the go there? Yeah. What was wigged out we got this one. Yeah. You can add that. Yeah. Do you remember hearing about because the ghetto was part of their land that was taken over by a cross rail developer, right. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember hearing about that? Yeah. I mean, I think everyone knows that that there was going to be a time when it would be gone. That whole corner. You not and what else was there? Like? A story story. I think everyone knew but no, no. I mean, no one no one really knew. When it was gonna happen,

K Anderson  35:01

it was just lingering over for a while. Yeah. And then it just just happened. Yeah. Have you been to that part of the world? recently? Tottenham Court, right? Yes, sir. unrecognisable, isn’t it?

Princess Julia  35:17

The thing is, you know, that’s when you live in a city, I’m from London, you get sort of used to things, you know, it’s a it’s a city, it’s in flux, it’s ever changing, you know, things come and go. I mean, I do sometimes wonder when, you know, fantastic old buildings that have some sort of architectural importance sort of get flattened, and it doesn’t seem, you know, just move the buildings somewhere else to preserve it or something, do not remain. How easy

K Anderson  35:49

is that to do?

Princess Julia  35:52

You do it. But yeah, and it’s quite sort of weird how think how quickly you forget. Yeah, what those areas looked like as well. I mean, even where I live. A lot of it is supposedly got flattened in, in the Second World War, supposedly, but in fact, it didn’t. It actually just the council just flattened it all. And it was, you know, beautiful. Lots of Georgian buildings all down one side of the road. It was all like that all around. But actually, that was only bits of it were destroyed in the war. And most of it was actually flattened by the actual Council for their redevelopment schemes

K Anderson  36:46

to throw up cheap buildings.

Princess Julia  36:48

Yeah. And then it got flattened again, but you know, it was all like, if you go look at the architectural layout of how it was before it was all nice. And all, it was all at Columbia road. It was all like that really was a few grand buildings. But all around the back was all nice, you know, just real estates. Yeah. But people did, but that was in the 50s.

K Anderson  37:16

So they weren’t?

Princess Julia  37:19

Didn’t I don’t know. Yeah. That’s just I don’t know how they work things out. is sad when things close or left sort of fall to pieces? And but new things are always popping up, aren’t they? Yeah. I mean, I wrote an article Friday about how you know, everyone’s going on then where everything’s kind of, that’s not good. But that there’s all these other ones that you come out to these other things. They now have seen you any of them. Glory’s been going for five years now. And they’ve worked really hard up there. You know, and I feel part of what’s going on in there. And it’s I think it’s really an important space. And there’s other places as well, that are working really hard to, to make things happen. Be good creative spaces, and it is sad when places are, you know, leftist, or tumble down. For whatever reason, there are things going on.

K Anderson  38:24

Yeah, there are things going on, but I suppose it’s that people like so people aren’t generally aren’t going out and drinking as much as they used to. And then because of the licencing laws. Well, lots of people are staying at home on Grindr. Oh, yeah. Those that are going to Chem sex parties.

Princess Julia  38:43

Very big. I mean, that kind of same has always gone on. Yeah. But it’s always gone on. Yeah. But obviously, it’s it’s ramped up into his cut out the clapping aspect of it. Before they might go to backstreet or the sound sharp. Yeah, yeah. But now, yeah, all that but it’s a very, you know, a lesson while you know, I have lost friends to that scene, and I’m sure you have, and it is very, it’s very worrying. It’s very concerning. Just how those drugs are pretty hardcore, and how they have better your perspective on things. You know, for me is real. They concern I am worried about it, and saddened that these sorts of things this sort of obviously, I’ve never been to a Chem sex party. But I’ve noticed in more recent times, how like a drug sucks. As gh bei

K Anderson  40:03

is has been normalised, sir like, even that being used it within clubs and stuff totally. Yeah.

Princess Julia  40:10

Yeah. It’s normally not people are taking it in clubs and it’s normalised. And I mean, it’s not it’s not even a drug. Is it? Really? I mean, just what is it drain? Oh, it’s like not nice at all. I don’t know what that’s doing to you. Your insides? Listen, I’m not against taking drugs. I’ve taken loads of drugs. But I am concerned with some of these things are like a sniff of poppers as much as the next person. Do you know, I mean, it’s not it’s not particularly healthy, but it’s balanced out. But these sort of things are not up. They seem really, really, really hard core. To my mind.

K Anderson  40:52

Yeah. No, no,

Princess Julia  40:57

isn’t worry. And, you know, I do hear of people that just can’t, you know, it’s so hardcore that they, there’s they go so into it. I mean, you might have been into it yourself. It’s like getting so into it, that you just can’t function.

K Anderson  41:15

Planning you can’t for the next Yeah,

Princess Julia  41:17

you just can’t. It’s really like, you know, you just cannot look, you know, they can’t even live in a city. Because there’s just too many triggers around. Yeah. You know, it gets to that point when, when you lose everything.

K Anderson  41:37

Yeah, it’s pretty, you know,

Princess Julia  41:38

really smart, intelligent, major people getting caught up in this. I mean, it’s not even sexy. No, no,

K Anderson  41:47

yeah, I don’t, I don’t and I mean, I haven’t taken it before. I don’t really quite understand because I’ve seen people on it, and I’m like, be quite even have sex. So it’s okay. To have, you know,

Princess Julia  41:59

feel concerned. Yeah. I mean, there’s so many factors around that particular lifestyle, and I do understand it, but it’s not a new lifestyle. It’s something that’s always happened with different drugs in different ways. But yeah, it that that convent, that particular combination, maybe I need to talk to Tony fat Tony. He’s quite nice, more, you know, and his, you know, is more authoritative on that sort of thing. Shall we move on from this? I really do feel.

42:47

Although

Princess Julia  42:49

we are talking about the demise of certain spaces and things that there is such a lot of really great nights going on, you know, from like the gay rise of Adonis, which is one of my favourites or chapter 10. Another one of my favourites with a fantastic and actually, you know, that they spaces up in Ashley road in Tottenham hio. They are due for redevelopment. So they will go, but they’ve got other spaces looming up not so far. Why, you know, in the same sort of vicinity, there are things and collapse spaces going on are really, really very exciting. And even, you know, things that, you know, like chaos at electro works. And other nights I have there like that one. I mentioned rice there. And actually, there’s new things popping up all the time. But I found a mine’s just starting a new night, up in state new intern in a new bar that’s just sort of started out with things going on all the time. You know, so, I mean, I think it’s because I’m so wrapped up in that worldsteel that I do actually now. Quite a lot everything I’m interested in. Yeah, you know, I’m excited by it. And yeah, obviously I do miss that old thing. You know, it’s sad about the black cat and things like that, you know, and and other things did spring up in the area. But you know, I am sad about that with a sense of nostalgia. I wonder if you know how that would be if that was still we can only imagine can’t wait. I mean the drag saying I was saying you know what we’ll well I was thinking it was the teams but I think maybe the 20s is going to be remembered as the that the the drag decades. That’s huge thing. Usually main strike have all sorts of drag.

K Anderson  45:05

It’s far less stigma around being a drag queen now isn’t there?

Princess Julia  45:09

I think it’s also I don’t know if it’s stigmas the right word. But there’s a definite opening up of the Seine and a whole Marsh from people outside of our immediate community. And appreciate some of these things. You won’t know anyone that Yeah, you’ll know the people that are in the show. Yeah, really?

K Anderson  45:42

All the streets is young people. That’s a lot of kids. Yeah. Yeah. The drag stars of tomorrow. Taking care

Princess Julia  45:55

of kids. Did you look at Jody harsh, his feed from drag calm? And it’s hilarious that sometimes the children got halfway gone.

K Anderson  46:09

Yeah, that is fascinating, isn’t there? Yeah. There’s just always something that I mean, protected from?

Princess Julia  46:17

Yeah, I mean, we do live in a bit of a bubble. Everyone lives in their own bubble. You know, whatever that is that they are comfortable with. But you know, obviously we do. But our bubble does say on certain aspects of their have opened up to a whole new, wider demographic.

K Anderson  46:37

But what do you mean? Who

Princess Julia  46:38

knew in 1978? That you could be a bio queen in tooth? 2020?

K Anderson  46:45

Yeah,

Princess Julia  46:46

I mean, I love it. Might be I invented it. I mean, I’ve always enough dressing up. That’s the thing that saved me.

K Anderson  47:03

Oh, my God, I

Princess Julia  47:04

love it. I love just often, dressing up is really great form of self expression.

K Anderson  47:12

Where do you say it saved you? Because otherwise, everything could be just beside boring. Anything to live for? get up in the morning and put something fabulous. Yeah, like, yeah. I do do data night data now. And so just to close off our potted history of London clubbing. So what do you think is the biggest difference between when you started clubbing in the 70s to now?

Princess Julia  47:45

What’s the biggest difference? Okay, well, obviously communication is makes a big difference. Social media is a fabulous tool for me, and can be for you. I think it is for you to rely on ideas and inform people about what’s going on. And now use it in that way. It makes everything a lot quicker. Some people think that that in a way means that things don’t nurture or mature in a no ganic fashion. Whatever that means. I’ve heard those words bandied? Yeah. Do I feel that is people ask me this question all the time. Is there an underground? And I actually I will say, yes, there is an underground because things aren’t always so apparent on the surface of things. They do have to do a little bit of digging. And sometimes, the only way you can really find out about things is to actually go to the night. Yeah, yeah. And be there in real life. Yes, get off on you know, in this age. It’s sometimes maybe social media makes you feel that you’ve been somewhere even though you really haven’t. Don’t even know I sometimes don’t go somewhere because I’m just too tired. But I can see it all online. You know, what’s going on? But then I might feel as though I might have missed out on occasion. I do. But sometimes I don’t. Oh, yeah, that’s uh, yeah, no.

K Anderson  49:51

But so that do

Princess Julia  49:52

you think it’s important to experience things? You know, in equal measure, I think online life is fine, but also is important to actually physically put yourself in a space.

K Anderson  50:05

And you’re just picking up on that as well. But you said before about communications? Do you think that this kind of mystery that sprung up around Steve strange and Leigh Bowery in the press would have existed if they were using social media.

Princess Julia  50:22

But okay, this is like a thread to consider. When you’re on social media, you can decide yourself how much of your personal life you want to reveal to your friends, and to your wider circles of friends, and to possibly a myriad of strangers that you don’t really know. But they’re curious about you, and they follow you, you can decide to do all those things. That’s your prerogative. If social media had been there, in the 70s, or the 80s, and these strange, or Leigh Bowery, and Leigh Bowery, and use them, we can only wonder what they might have revealed about themselves. Thinking back to how they were, they bet by three different people, but both had an air of naughtiness about them. Leigh Bowery did like a gossip, and a lot, the ring the part on occasion, everyone knows that. These strange also enjoyed notoriety. Have a kind. And actually, Steve was around when social media had begun and he used to use it, but he was quite Dotty at it, really. So I feel but I enjoyed it, he did enjoy it. I feel that probably they would, they probably have the same air of, of mystery surrounding them, whether the social media is there or not, quite frankly, because I think we’re both very, you know, enjoyed their nature or their notoriety. And I’m pretty sure that Lee would have enjoyed a good out goseck and I’m pretty sure of it. But also, you know, enjoyed his more private moments. And he was in quite a lot of ways quite secretive with various things, so I think he would definitely, I think he’d be like, you know, enjoy, enjoy social media, for what it is. Yeah. You know?

K Anderson  53:09

Do you recognise any of the places that we discussed in this episode, and have your own memories to share? If you do, I would love to hear from you. Reach out through any of my social media channels, that’s Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc, etc. Using the handle K Anderson music. Law spaces is not only a podcast, but a concept record as well. I’ve been writing songs about queer venues and the people who used to live their lives there. And we’ll be releasing songs over the coming year. You can hear the first single well groomed boys which is also playing underneath my talking right now on all streaming platforms. If you liked this episode, I would really appreciate if you subscribed, left a review or just told people who you think might be interested about it. I am K Anderson and you have been listening to last spaces







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