Triangles, Connecticut, USA (with Timberlina)

Timberlina is back! We had such a fun, rambling, meandering conversation the last time that we decided to get together again to talk about another lost space and another time in her life, when she was nannying for a young family in Westchester county, north of New York City.

On weekends she would mostly flee to the bright lights of the big apple, exploring the queer scene in Manhattan. But, occasionally she’d venture to an out-of-the-way bar called Triangles, in Connecticut. We caught up to talk about being queer in the 90s, chasing excitement, and to read over the online reviews for the bar.

Make sure you listen to Timberlina’s own podcast, Live from Rye!


Timberlina  00:00

I find it really, you know, I find it quite sad that queer identities become so boring and yet since bloody factional, and well, we’re supposed to be at the top end of the cultural pyramid, and everybody else had to do this shit. And it feels like now we’ve kind of lost that share but, but anyway, that’s the whole story.

K Anderson  00:22

I am K Anderson and you are listening to lost spaces, the podcast that mourns the death of queer nightlife. Every episode I talk to a different person, about a venue from their past, the memories they created there, and the people that they used to know. Timberlina is the world’s number one ecologically minded, bearded dragon lady, and also a previous guest of the podcast. We had such a fun, rambling Leander in conversation the last time that we decided to get together and do it all again. And this time we talked about Timberlina is time nannying for a young family in Westchester County, north of New York City. On weekends, she would mostly flee to the bright lights of the Big Apple exploring the queer scene in Manhattan. But occasionally, she would venture to an out of the way bar triangles, which was in Connecticut, we caught up to talk about being queer in the 90s chasing excitement and community. And we also read over the online reviews for the bar which I found kind of fun.

Timberlina  02:04

There was a poster in the sixth form common room had quite a quite an old time during my teen years and subsequently ended up long story short, going from a quite a formal grammar school to very happy go lucky, comprehensive. And then in that last year, which would have put in the A levels that year, last year of high school, I had so much more fun than I’d had previously. But I subsequently flunked my a levels, well, I got violent anyway, I knew for whatever reason that I was going to go to the States, I just wasn’t quite sure how this was all going to materialise, and there was a poster outside the common room and it was for au pair in America. And so I just thought, okay, and you know, and it was like, be paid to live there, didn’t have a visa done and live in, you know, live live with a family get to really get your, you know, get your fingers in the dirt of the culture that you’re living in. And I thought, well, this sounds great. And so I obviously there was no internet and a half time it takes me quite a bit, I have to take a moment and really think about how I must have orchestrated these things because there was no internet so I you know, I couldn’t get my smartphone out and relay the post to my phone, I would have had to written down probably a phone number or an address, I would then have to have written the letter or call the number two got the application flow. It’s exhausting. I know. Like me to this this would have been May or June. So I’m alright I’m just about to do my levels and also teaching French kids here. And then I’m also by snail mail orchestrating an application with open America which meant that I had to go for an interview at some funny hotel somewhere in North London and I have absolutely no recollection of how that all worked out other than maybe I borrowed my mom’s car to get there anyway. But it all came together anyway okay together I would have used an identical but anyway sorry. I digress already. I’m not even there yet. Anyway, all came together and the one and I mean obviously they were they were very stressed the fact that there weren’t many boy nannies but they were quite in demand so this will probably be a really good opening and you know, they were seemed very nice. They seem very positive about my whole application. And the one and only family that called me up was the stern was America’s go New York and we, I think they sent so basically my one of my portfolio would would have gone to them goes to all these

K Anderson  04:55

with your glamour shots

Timberlina  04:57

with my glamour exactly where my headshots on my screen, my screen, my video reel, reel, my show reel. And the families go through the stuff. And then they call up their people that are the Au Pair agency and and they say yes, we’ll have, we’ll have Tim and so that was it. So they said, and so subsequently then they contact me. And I say, yeah, of course I’m interested. Are you crazy? So then they say, Oh, great, well, we’re going to send you their portfolio that you know their brochure. So I get this lovely letter from them. Family, all the pics of all the family at the time, they had two boys one was about to be born. That’s why they wanted to get them they were willing to get an A male Au Pair because they had two boys they were having they were gonna have a third kid boy. They had lived in the city for many, many years. Steph is originally from New York anyway, from New Rochelle and Westchester right down near near Manhattan. john was from Ohio. But they you know, as I say, lived in Manhattan met in Manhattan where total like, lived down and try back. ticked every box I could possibly have wanted. And we’re now living in Westchester, which is just north of the city. And you know, we’ll call it and I was gonna say no, anyway, so I just said, Yeah, great. So it all worked out that we had a ratio we had I would have had a telephone interview me and the parents. And we got on really well. And that was it. So I’d sell to limit. They then sort of give the green light. I get a visa. And I hopped on a plane and then I I get on a plane with I don’t know, like 60 or 100 other au pairs on them. And yeah,

K Anderson  06:41

like I was just going to live in a house. Yeah, but yeah, strangers.

Timberlina  06:47

Yeah. But what was good about it was a packed word. Ironically, it was the last year that they let men or young young men and boys, in essence were to become au pairs. After that I really wouldn’t stand up in the single equality bill by the time that’s what they were doing. I mean, I don’t know, for whatever reason, maybe they might just why not Africans anyway. But yeah, it was totally legit. So over here in America, you would fly over to New York, and that’s where everybody would congregate all these Au Pairs would converge from all over the world, you know, and there were people from all over Europe, who will go into America to be au pairs, and then you would, you’d land in New York, you’d have three days orientation in New York. And then everybody would go their separate ways. And most, you know, everybody was going all in all other places. I was quite lucky to be that close to me. I mean, and I’ve always wanted to go to New York Don’t get me wrong, New York was kind of it. So the fact that you know, I was living in also but the added bonus to that also was being in Westchester and did it there was a double whammy as I as it emerged was because it’s you know, as a 15 minute train ride from the city, and yet you are in the most spectacular landscape. It was like Mary Poppins and not Mary Poppins. No way it was basically like a Disney dot any any Disney any of the Disney parks. It was

K Anderson  08:04

so like, woodland creatures coming out to sing.

Timberlina  08:06

Yeah, woodland creatures coming out to sings all of a sudden various pieces of crockery would burst into song, you know?

K Anderson  08:15

Yeah. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. So I’m assuming it went well, in terms of like,

Timberlina  08:21

it’s fantastic. Fantastic. It was fantastic. Yeah, I was green as cabbage looking. The first year I was there. I was 18. I was very aware of being underrated. So speaking of to be 21 to do well to buy there. I think did I think I met was was an interesting time as well, because So where are we? This is 91. And so like, you know, tribes and warehouse parties were coming into their own. I’m going to go off on one now actually, but please feel free to bring me back to kilter. But I just sort of giving you an idea. So you know, it’s like the first example I was from a seaside town called Frinton on sea, which is where I grew up, clad in Essex, basically, the posh bit and you know, when I went to London for the first time to go clubbing, I took a sip because I thought when you go clubbing So there we are, we turn up at the brain club on Water Street, which I think then became the trash palace later. But yeah, brain the brain club was unbelievable. Yeah, we turn up in a suit and I just remember the bathroom doors like, loosen up my undid my tie a bit, and I was obviously terrified. But then we went into this club in London, and we were the only people wearing formal wear those with my friend Liz and she was dolled up and I was gonna see what everybody else wearing baggy t shirts, and probably on existing. So did I mean I wasn’t I wasn’t really adept at going out anyway, so to know that I was now in this city where the work into the legal age of 21 I was all very like, well, in which case I mustn’t go anywhere. I plan to go to a pub because I’m underrated. I didn’t think of that. So that’s the game, so too, so I’m just going to try and load that. I have abided by it. But I did meet some incredible people. And I, you know, I did end up kind of going out to various places in town and in the city and it was amazing.

K Anderson  10:18

So then what was the deal in terms of nannying? Was it like five days a week? And then you’ve got the weekends off? or?

Timberlina  10:24

Yeah, basically, that was it. I had five. I had Thursday afternoons off Friday nights, I would have to work because that was the date night, so the parents would go out for dinner, which I always thought was a really good idea, they would go out for dinner every Friday night, and they would just check in, we connect with each other, have a child free moment, I would stay at home with the kids, or we would watch a walk as default.

K Anderson  10:46

So on the weekends, you were free,

Timberlina  10:48

and then Exactly, so then I would either stay in Cusco, or more often than not, I would hop on the cosmic waggon train first thing on a Saturday morning, or even on a Friday night, and head into the city. And especially the second time I was there, 9596. I would often go in on Friday and not come back until Sunday. And they were very cool with that. And that was fine. Ah,

K Anderson  11:10

so the timeline here is that you were there for a year from 91. And then you went back later on in 95.

Timberlina  11:18

is correct. So I was there from 91 to 92. I like to call that my, my orientation period,

K Anderson  11:26

figuring it out. But then so 9596, you were back at this same family

Timberlina  11:31

that was back in the same family. But if you think about it, there’s only three years because I got back in 92 in sort of August, September 92. And then it was the summer of 95 that I went back. So actually that’s 33 years, which isn’t that low.

K Anderson  11:50

And then so how did that work out? Did they just get in touch with you? directly and like,

Timberlina  11:54

Oh my god, Yeah, totally. And again, there was no internet and there it was really weird. I was literally sleeping on the floor behind the couch, you’re gonna make it up in a friend’s flat Flat house in Stoke Newington. And I had had a cycling accident, I broken my leg, severed a cruciate ligament, for those who were interested in broken necks, and sort of rendered myself completely, you know, like, written that the last the second quarter of the year off. And then I was kind of feeling a little bit disillusioned with my university course. And so I’m living in this house on someone’s floor in stone, your intern, and the phone rings, and it’s for me, and it was like, well, what’s happened? It’s gotta be my mom, cuz she was the person who had the number where I was. And they will, I noticed somebody called staff and I was like, Oh, my God. So I get off the phone and IT staff, IT staff, the mother of the family, and we stayed in touch. You know, don’t get me wrong. I got we were like, they’re literally like, a family to me. And we To this day, we’re in touch regularly. And it was done on the phone. There. I am completely mesmerised like, wow, yeah. Well,



Timberlina  13:18

going on? How can you work clearly got the number from my mom? And what’s going on? How why, you know, I swear to you, you’ve called me, it’s so great to hear from you. How you doing? So then she started so say, Well, you know, they’ve had this wild child au pair. It’s kind of we made them feel like they’ve sort of slightly gone off the rails a bit, and they really kind of want to bring it back. And they really missed me being there. And I was saying, Oh my god, I really miss being there. I’m just having this really weird year and I broke my leg and I’m really disenchanted with college. And then it’s like, both of us, the penny dropped. It was like, you know, what, I really could uses a year away. And she’s like, well, we could really use as you come back, you know, like, and it was like, oh, okay, so should I come back then? That would that work? And she was like, Are you serious? I said Well, yes. But I you know, we got to get a visa I don’t want to be illegal, because I didn’t want to jeopardise my chances of ever going back again. And also, as I said, as I said, I was cleaning cabbage looking. So I was just like, you know, garbage it. terrified of authority. Anyway. She was uh, yeah, of course. Absolutely. So and then and then so that and that was it. So that was in the July and the August and then I think it was the end of the August I know literally put the phone down but Okay, guys, I’ll see you later. I’m going to I’m going to the States. And I think it took like a maybe a couple of weeks to sort out the the visa, maybe a month and then I just got on a plane and went back to New York. And it was how I was I was talking about step up. It was like a whole different experience going back was was brilliant. It was amazing.

K Anderson  15:00

So what would you say are the main differences then between the first time you were there, and the second time,

Timberlina  15:04

I think landing there and being totally familiar with all of the geography, and where everything is. And, and so having this familiarity with it as well, you know, because what am I I’m 24. So still very, like a year somewhere, but then also something, you know, subsequently, every summer, I would go there for a month or two months, you know. So, you know, this is a place where I’ve spent quite a lot of my time already really felt like being able to pop home. And, you know, and see the see that family as well. And that was amazing, but then also having another new sense of confidence, because now I was not 18 anymore. And now I was, you know, in my mid, early, mid 20s. So I was you know, I was perfectly happy and very at ease with them going out. So that was a whole new world, which I was then going to step into. And the you know, that was really exciting. That was really exciting. It was I think it was probably the first time I felt really so confident in what I was doing. You know?

K Anderson  16:25

And when you say doing, do you mean, everything or?

Timberlina  16:29

Yeah, I mean, everything, I think in terms of the job, at least I knew the kids and we’ve been in touch so that there was no, you know, even at a very young and that’s a very, can be very difficult issue. You know, because if you kiss don’t necessarily have a sort of facial memory until they’re like one or certainly, before they were. And so I had carried on the relationship with the kids, and they were with who I was. And, you know, that kind of beefed up that role. I mean, one of them was was problematic. And that was that was the whole I mean, I had borrowed it for that. But that was really interesting, just working on that one of them was there was the early days when kids started being diagnosed with a DD and ADHD and how that all worked. And that was really, really fascinating. I think that culture, it’s slightly changed. So now everything we were just beginning to have email. So that made me feel somehow, like I was, you know, I really felt like at the time that the phrase coined was a global citizen. You know, this was the 90s, we were all listening to global trance and going to warehouse parties and, you know, taking drugs that brought us all together. And I felt like I was kind of living that, you know, I’ve just been studying popular cultural communication, sociology, or history, I was going to go back and live with a couple of, essentially artists who were living upstate, I knew, you know, they were like mentors as much as they were like employees. And it was like, it was kind of like taking sort of doing a foundation course, in some respects.

K Anderson  18:05

So tell me about triangles in Connecticut.

Timberlina  18:10

Wow. So there are two avenues for run debuts. Some sometimes on a Friday night, I’d want to go out, but I didn’t want to go into C for whatever reason, or I don’t want to go to a straight pub spec bar, which there are many. And also DWI is really hardcore. That’s the you know, if you get caught drunk while intoxicated, that’s a huge issue. That whole thing is really pumped into. So you’re very aware of that. And I looked up where there was a newest gay bar, which I want to keep was like an hour’s drive. So you might as well have gone into the stage. And it was on the outskirts of a small town in Connecticut called Danbury. And there was a bar called triangles. And it was just how you would imagine it in terms of it like being in this kind of like gravelled rumbled kind of giant car park, almost like a truck stop, you know, and this bar in the middle of this giant sort of car park, and a big sign on this on the road triangles. And the bill that was it. I thought it just said I didn’t even I didn’t have a Patreon and there was nothing suggested maybe add a little one sort of on the building. But it was it was pretty discreet, or was it discreet? Now that now that I know that I think about it. I think also because you know, it was it was it was full of peeps, who was sort of like on the on the cusp of people who are second homes up in Connecticut, or in that part of New York, or lived, you know, in the area of which terabyte so you had this funny mix of incredibly rich Chelsea bunnies who were in their country retrieved for the weekend. But then you also had quite a lot of low Call kids misfits, just you know, usual queers be they straight or you know, battling for the same team or just wanting somewhere else to go and have a good time by manly people. And that that, you know, that was like a revelation and it was cool. And I went, I mean, I can’t think I must have started going there pretty soon after I landed because I was chomping at the bit at this point, to just go and explore everything. And you know, as a young, mid 20s, queer with this newfound confidence, you know, and now being of age of legal age, I was like, yeah, give me give me the directory, I’m going everywhere. And I had this car that I could use whenever I wanted. And of course, the bars are open till super late. So even like on I said, it would be like, the typical situation would be on a Friday night, the parents maybe were out till like, say 10 or 11, which was, you know, pretty kind of late. And I’d be like, right, I’m gonna go out, and it would be sort of too late to go into the city at this point. So I would just, you know, I would get in the car, and I would drive like an hour, to go to a bar for an hour and then drive back, it would say, three hours, I’d been at the bar for like an hour. And it was kooky. I met a really good bunch of kids that I will say that I mean coke in that in the most sort of warm way, you know, people like minded people who would just say, you know, similar kind of thoughts, clear Spark, just nonconformance I think also also, but also, you know, very camp, provincial queens who you kind of wanted them to go into the city, because you knew they would be amazing, but at the same time, they were so enveloped in their sort of upstate mentality or province. So dare I use the term provincial, that it was never something that they did. And I just found that amazing, but I’ve always found that interesting. As somebody who’s from like, you know, Essex, like, the number of people that you meet, you’ve never actually been to London. You live outside you just outside London, you never go into the city, but the same time here, York, and we’re like, why? Would you ever go out in the city of like, you know, what, why about the city? They were like, Well, you know, it’s a long way. It’s expensive and alert, you know, appear most of them are doing college degrees are people doing like college students are having to work full time as well as do their college degrees. So yeah,

K Anderson  22:18

but Isn’t that fascinating? Because Oh, my God, not that far away from New York.

Timberlina  22:24

No, no, absolutely. Absolutely. And then there was a guy called Stefan who was a film buff, and I used to watch a lot of films, they go to cinema, every possible opportunity, and of course, blockbusters was the thing then. So blockbusters always had his and there were also other independent video stores that there was Campbell video, and Yorktown Heights, which was the most fantastic independent video store. And they would have really kind of weird shit. I think that’s where I kind of found Fellini and all that kind of old stuff. And you know, you could get all this stuff in the local video store. But anyway, triangles

K Anderson  22:59

try. Yeah, so triangles. So we are going down. winding country road is a country road or highway.

Timberlina  23:11

No, no, it’s country, but it’s, well, there are two ways you could eat it. You can take route 684 up and then do a right on some other highway and then come off the highway. But I was always so terrified. I would miss the turn off and end up in like Maine or something with travel too long. And I always sort of enjoyed going down the country roads as terrifying as they can be at night, especially if it’s raining, or it’s wintery. And you’re in the middle of nowhere generally, what are those American hours every American horror film comes into your mind when you’re driving?

K Anderson  23:48

Sorry Jenna why laughing so hard? And then like so it’s just like a building on the side of the road. And are there other buildings next to it or is it just

Timberlina  24:02

like you don’t know you don’t see a truck stop? Yeah, we have a truck stop you know when you see like a cafe for lorries? Yeah. So there’ll be big expensive a car park maybe there’s some like conifers around the edge of it. And then in the middle of that car park there will be just literally a square building maybe in a corner there’s maybe some kind of like petrol station you think but there will simply be like a cafe thing right in the middle of this thing in this in this car park. So yeah, you’re driving along the road, and then you would pull into this giant carpark thing and there would be this and I want to in terms like heck or hillbilly bar spring to mind.

K Anderson  24:48

But but but is it like a shed? Guess kind of like a shed? Oh, wow. Okay,

Timberlina  24:55

on the outside, but then when you go inside, there’s mirrors for days and a dance floor. In a bar, and you know, it was cool on the outside. Yeah, it looked like a den of iniquity on the inside. It was kind of you know, it was kind of she she went downstairs, it was kind of sunken. And then it was sunken symbol or to the big dance floor. And there were mirrors everywhere. And the dust loaded up and there was a big bar. And I think it was a lounge area, you could go into a lounge area and just hang out in the booths. And there was a little dance floor there. And the downstairs there was another dance floor, I think, yeah, there was a delta and because I remember there was a pageant.

K Anderson  25:30

How many downstairs was there, just one downstairs.

Timberlina  25:33

This way, I’m gonna sit downstairs I mean, like format a mezzanine to adults.

K Anderson  25:39

And then so this mirror thing, tell me about it. So you come in, and you’re just surrounded by marathe.

Timberlina  25:44

See, so you come in and it’s dark. And there’ll be some down lights, and they’ll be a little comedy, they’ll pass the ticket, there’ll be a ticket desk clerk and security, then you’ll go through an old corridor. And I think it was like a coat check on the right. And then I think there was stairs there down to this dance floor area. But then I think also behind the stairs was the corridor kind of way around creating a balcony to the stairs into this other lounge area, which maybe had like was more of a cabaret area, like more like cabaret bar, which may be a little stage, which I never saw really being used because everything was downstairs and there but there were these booths, and it was just, you know, a bit more intimate. And then you had the long ball with sassy barman, one of whom I did have a liaison with. Yeah, that climb through his window to get out of his house.

K Anderson  26:41

Oh, okay. We were okay. So we will I’m scribbling this down and questions about this. But so we’ve we understand the space now. The in terms of the clientele you talked about before that there were lots of Yeah, I guess. So that part of Connecticut, if you can help me understand, are there lots of people that live there that use it as a commute? Like a commuting town? Oh, absolutely.

Timberlina  27:10

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So you’ve got the MTA Metro Transit Authority, and yes, yes. And then you’ve got the Long Island Railroad. I think it probably wants to New Jersey, but I never went there. But anyway, so the MTA seems to like the wider metropolitan area. And it goes way up, you know, it kind of goes way up the Hudson. And it’s, you know, it’s, it’s quite accessible and really bright. If you think about it, like, you know, the greater extents of, of London are very suburban and very green, very lush, you know, you get to like Epping, or if you’d like to get a Bromley or, you know, some of the boroughs on the outer fringes are quite country like, so, kinda live in that, but it was a little bit more, I think there was a term that used to do that, which was the x suburban, so just the periphery of, of suburbia. That’s kind of where we are. And it did carrying on a little bit further up. But like I said, there were a lot of people who maybe had been a second home or weekend home, we can have quite a big deal. That was quite a big thing. People would have these hands, and they would go up to Connecticut at the weekend, they would have place up there at the weekend, and then they would probably have a place downtown during the week. So that was not an you know, that was not any, it was not a major big deal. Other than if you didn’t want to start dating when they they weren’t allowed for most the time, but that’s another story. But then also, like I said, there was also quite a kind of niche of local community as well. So it was a real convergence of kind of like it was sort of like Metro savvy, that sounds really condescending talking to indie, because it sounds really awesome. They’re like city, city queers and country queers. But it was a really interesting mix. Like I said, you know, a lot of people who are local, but they were really, you know, they were on a trajectory, they were working full time they were going to college, they were looking at going to film school, or they were professional, they were semi professional, some maybe had moved out city because they’ve been there already. And I found that really interesting as somebody who was like getting into the city as quickly as possible because I want to get down to the East Village and be a proper queer. I just found but you know, I found that out kind of like provincial queerness something really intriguing that really intrigued me.

K Anderson  29:39

That is interesting, isn’t it? Like Yeah, I yeah, I had the same kind of experience as you I guess it just like get me out of this small town. I need to move somewhere bigger and I need to like experience these were clubs and like really do this. Let’s do it properly. And then there were people that were I grew up who were just quite happy to Yes, to be there. And it was like What


is wrong?

Timberlina  30:03

I know, I never understood it. I was thinking about a friend of mine the other day and, and you know, just super quickly, he was here about me, he was really great. He was he was really good. He excelled at art. And I really looked up to him and he was clearly queer. And we kind of like made, you know, all those teenage references that you do without actually mentioning yourself, you know, because it was still quite a dark time, the late 80s was still quite a dark time to come out, especially if you’re a teenager.

K Anderson  30:29

So you just like started talking about the Golden Girls in order to Oh, no, we talked about with a nation. Let him know,

Timberlina  30:38

we talked about the evolution of Janet Jackson from control to was a nation that was essentially and and I remember, you know, he was really good at art. And he made amazing plays. He wanted to be a fashion designer. And then I moved schools I like I said, I went, he left, he left, he graduated, I then went to a comprehensive school. And then I was in London. I mean, sorry, in Colchester of all places. I can’t remember why I was in. I was in the sort of social secur I can’t remember what I don’t even know why I was in there. But anyway, I went to meet him to see if he would like to meet for coffee. And he was like, are you know, as it turned out, we could for whatever reason, but he was like, yeah, I’m not interested in going, I’ve got this job. Now. I’m not going anywhere. I’m fine. I don’t want to go. And I was like, dude, you inspired me. You were like, you introduced me to Janet Jackson, you made a velvet glove for your a level fashion? No, a level art thing. And now you’re going to work in the Social Security office. He was that? Well, yeah, you know. And I was I do not understand. And to this day, I kind of, I think we’re actually having said that, of course, now I live in the countryside, so I can see why you kind of go back to it. And I can also see why people don’t leave. But it’s all to do with being in the moment and sort of making the most of your situation, which Yeah,

K Anderson  32:03

I just I mean, the thing like for me, like, I totally get that if you’re heterosexual because like you’ve done you’ve not had any friction in your I’m sorry, this is total total generalisation. But like, you haven’t, you haven’t felt like an outsider because of your sexual orientation. And so it would be easy for you to be like, Yeah, well, this is good. I fit in here. But as a as a queer person, I’m a bit like, but like you, you these, this community has, like alienated you your whole life. Like go and find your tribe. Like why are you hanging out here? Absolutely. Absolutely. But yeah, I mean, different strokes, different folks. I don’t know why,

Timberlina  32:43

indeed. Absolutely. I completely agree. Yeah, I think you put that basic Sydney. I don’t know, it just seemed somehow more and more I sort of amplified, especially in New York, because you were that close to it. And also, as an outsider, I would be like, Well, you know, Hey, why don’t we all go into town next weekend? So and they were like, What, are you crazy? I mean, a lot of

K Anderson  33:04

what we might get master.

Timberlina  33:06

Well, it was less that but more the fact they were also busy. Okay, you know, like I said, these people, if they were studying for a degree, they would be working full time. So actually, the idea of free time was, you know, a kind of mystery to them. They were like, Oh, God, I wish I had free weekends. And you know, things like that. That made me kind of realise how lucky I had it. I wasn’t earning a huge amount of money, but I had no overheads. I had a car. I you know, I had no I didn’t have to pay for any food or board. All the money that I earned was purely recreational. I would square all that money away. I would either buy shoes, or I would just, you know, go on amazing weekends in the city.

K Anderson  33:51

How many shoes did you have to take home at the end of this year? 11 pairs of shoes and to count. Oh, okay, that’s not so bad. Oh, okay. Well, I asked a lot. Well, that’s fine. I mean, that that like that fits in a suitcase. I can like you know, the suitcase and the rest. Stuff taking back. So much stuff. Okay, so we have a good idea of the clientele now. Let’s get on to this bartender, shall we? We can if you want. What was his name? I can’t remember. Call him something. Dad.

Timberlina  34:35

He might have been a dad. He could have been a dad. He could have been a Ralph Ralph. That’s a nametag. That’s

K Anderson  34:41

really American. Let’s go with Ralph. Let’s go with Travis. Oh, try his name as well. Okay. Yeah, let’s, let’s Travis I do like but let’s you know, we’ve we’ve picked Ralph, let’s go to tell me.

Timberlina  34:58

What can I say Ralph was a I’m a very sweet barman who, you know, was very meek and mild and worked behind the bar at triangles. And we our eyes. I mean, it’s so bizarre. Because only recently we kind of rethought about all these things that we, I mean, we barely dated that I’ll be completely Frank, we barely dated, but there would have been for me see, for me, it would have been the whole seeing somebody and then having to kind of work through that process of how am I going to what am I going to say? And how am I going to say it? You know,

K Anderson  35:32

like, overthinking and over preparing.

Timberlina  35:36

Oh, yes. And totally being sort of, like 110% in all of this person. So like, well, how am I you know, so he’s, he’s not gonna want to talk to me, all of that malarkey. You know, Ralph would have been I’m that

K Anderson  35:49

way. I thought you were saying that you were like, super confident this time? Yeah, was but that was just as Ralph was another level where they?

Timberlina  35:58

Yeah, I was super confident as a person as a single person exploring the world and the universe. When it came to dating. We’ve been dating men, I was still a blubbering wreck. I didn’t have sexual competence.

K Anderson  36:10


Timberlina  36:11

that that did not come until much, much later. So that was what I mean. But it’s interesting, you say that, so that, you know, it would be fraught, because it’s like, you know, I would have this sort of like, you know, your de vivre. This is amazing. I’m in New York, it’s fantastic. And then I would see a certain type of guy, and I would be like, Oh, my God, I’m completely obsessed. Who is this person? They are the meaning of my life. That is why I’m here, you know. So I’d really have to protect myself aside and have a good talking to, I didn’t really deal with sort of men and sex in a really confident way until I was in my mid to late 20s. Definitely. But I still have some fun. But also, you know, there’s something kind of innocent and naive about that whole Hey, you know, I mean, it sounds pathetic, but I sort of like the mental foreplay of meeting guys. And then of course, as soon as you meet them, it’s like, I never need to see this person again in my life. I’ve just spent six months fantasising about this place. How’s that? Wait, what

K Anderson  37:11

you are, you’re, you’re pathetic. Yeah. about that. But so so. So when How did you get to be climbing out of his window?

Timberlina  37:23

Well, obviously, Ralph was one eventually I did speak to him. He was usually taken aback and was super excited. And there was clearly a freestyle. And he had no car because he would usually get a car back, he would usually get a ride back with his I know, colleague or whatever. And now it’s like, Oh, dude, I have a car, I could drive you back to your plane. There. We know that back to his place. And then we started making out in the car. And yes, it was one of those heady nights of walking out on a hot sticky summer night from the to the car, getting in the car, driving him back to his having another hot, steamy night, having hot sticking moment in the car, and then him sort of, you know, get towed again, swept away with it. And then saying, When do you want to come in? And of course, you’re like, Well, yes, sure. And he’s like, well, you have to be really careful because I live with my mom, and my dad. Mm hmm. My little brother, Tommy, and did a little and you’re like, Oh, okay. So you know, we went through, we got into the house, through the front door, that was fine. But then one thing led to another, and it was quite a long time later. And then I had to climb out his window to get out the car.

K Anderson  38:40

But not because someone was like coming in or anything just because

Timberlina  38:43

his mother was around. Yes. And I think that was the thing was that there’s something I need to tell you. And you’re like, you want to spend the rest of my life the rest of my life with me rest of your life with me. And he was like, now my mother doesn’t know I’m gay. You need to get out the window.

K Anderson  38:59

Oh, my God. Yeah. What would you take? Why would you, Ralph? I know for

Timberlina  39:05

a route but you know, that was we’ve we’ve all kind of been there in some way, shape or form.

K Anderson  39:11

Yeah, no, but not you. Like you’ve just finished telling me like you were super cautious. And super by the rules. If you hadn’t told your mum that you were gay, then you wouldn’t be bringing someone back? Well, interesting. Yeah. Maybe though? Oh, is this an Oh, am I gonna get

Timberlina  39:29

a revelation? I think well, I don’t know. It’s interesting that you say that I may have to find him. Now. I may have to go back to him and ask him that question. Yeah, it was a bit. It was a bit weird. And I sort of remember thinking, so you work in a gay bar. And, you know, you’re, you see guys and you let them bring you home. Like you’re, you’re not out to your parents. And I was like, I’ll call you know, call. That’s, that’s the reality that you know, I mean, you see that in films that you see, let’s look at Heather’s when Um, you know, Christian Slater climbs into that window of lots of money we but she’s the other one. We’re known a rider. Thank you, Winona Ryder. It was a big deal, you know that I thought for me again, it sort of added to the excitement because it was like I am literally in an American teen movie climbing out the house. I run to my car without being caught.

K Anderson  40:23

And he loves me so much that he brought me to his house. Like, the risks. Yeah, now I’m never gonna speak to him again. Yeah. And then so what? So you had like one, one thing with Ralph, and then that was it?

Timberlina  40:39

Yeah, I’m trying to think. And as I’m saying this, I think maybe that was I think I’m honest with you. I had any owner, the first time I was in the states 91 tonight to I don’t think I had a sexual one day bill until I was at the end of that year, and I got to San Francisco. And then I was like a rabbit. Basically. It’s not weird, but that whole year, I don’t think anything happened in that whole year. Because sometimes when I look back on it, I kind of think oh, yeah, it was then it was like, No, that was the next year. So sometimes I’ll think about something that happened. And I’ll get the kind of the years muddled up again, so we’re kind of close together. But anyway, that’s kind of boring. But ya know, it’s interesting, sort of mapping out the the friendships of that first year and how that worked out. That was much more nanny oriented than a second year, which was much more, it was pretty spread out. I had that I had my Connecticut crew from the from triangles, and we would hang out a lot. And that would be fun. And then, you know, go and meet. I remember I remember an amazing Halloween party. I remember amazing house parties, up in these little towns. And then from that I had this version not related that where I had a friendship with a guy called Stephen who in hindsight, I think we really fancied each other but neither of us actually said anything. And he would come over Friday nights, and we would watch movies after the kids have gone to bed because it was Friday night was dateline for the parents. And he you know, he talked like a film in New York films student. And I’d studied Film Studies a little bit. So we both had these overblown egos and this whole kind of parlance, which I think we both got a kick out of seeing maybe we went into the city once together, and nothing really happened. You know, and again, it was one of those things where you’ll about anything. Oh, he was. That’s why he kept calling up and coming around. It was like, ridiculous. But then also, there’s a whole East Side scene. So why would go down my below would be to the boiler room of the East Village. So I got there in August of 95. So it’s hot, sticky. And I’m also don’t forget the previous nanny whose role I am sort of assuming she’s still there. So we had a bit of an overlap to help the kids out and also just to kind of, you know, keep a call. So yeah, but she was fired. She was a wild turkey. She wasn’t spired she was just a bit of a wild child. And they had just kind of gotten to the end of the debt. However, with her.

K Anderson  43:32

She was she was fired.

Timberlina  43:34

Yeah, I wouldn’t like to say she was fired, but she was totally at the end of terminated. She was modelling she’s been she’s definitely she was definitely the end of a contract. Let’s put it that way. Okay, well, the contract was changed. So she was leaving. Anyway, I mean, she was great, but she was a wild child. I mean, she took me to places in New York. Was that amazing? And that was also helped me move forward in terms of my social life in New York City. She would tell me to Don hills which was down and what is what was the Meatpacking District now it’s like Disney World. And it was a lie. We’ve been open for years I think you know, it had been there for years and it was owned by this one guy Don Hill and and on Friday nights was the most incredible queer pie was me it was like turning up a Ducky you know what I mean? But back in the day well as it still would be now but you know what I mean? Is that you don’t you just tap in his club and it’ll be like, you know, there would be an amazing it’s the first time I kind of experienced militant drag cane lesbianism and then these rock and roll dude soon I thought they were guys and they will it turned out they were lesbian, like hardcore, like cross dressing lesbian jackings. Our however they identified at the time, and it was just amazing and they play you know, it wasn’t like clubbing like technically they play Really good music and it was a really rocky vibe. And it was really clear as can it was 1995 and five, and it was the 90s. And we were down there plugging me back in district. And it was amazing. And you would just get so drunk and so hot and sticky and then somehow make your own law more often than not I would make my way home and as I’m saying that it I’m absolutely mortified to think that I would be drunk and then get the last possible train home and then drive back to the station. Train that nobody stopped me I got started whilst I was so relieved. Oh my god. But yeah, if I got to pest I would then try and find somebody to see. But we’ve all been there.

K Anderson  45:47

Oh, yeah. I mean, that’s good motivation, too. But so the said the train home so you’d catch the train from the city to be fair.

Timberlina  45:59

Yeah, well, not quite the end of the line was not nicely not out of line at all. Really. It was just really like, the further you go out of the main, you know, when you get on a sort of local train going out of the city, the further you go out, the more distant this towns become. And so sort of like White Plains, and then you’d have a temple Valhalla. And there would be like Pleasantville and then you would have Chappaqua and then you would have mount Kisco and mount Kisco was kind of like the end of the local town network, and then it would be like the next town will be quite a way away. That would be I couldn’t remember what I can even tell you what it was called. Brewster north, it would end up in a town called Brewster north, which was far far far up the 684. But people were still coming from there. And it was what would ever be like an hour and a half, maybe.

K Anderson  46:51

Wow. So the hell and then how long would you drive when you got when you got off the train? I know this is this is

Timberlina  47:03

literally five minutes. Because there’s no sidewalks. There was no sidewalks and it was far enough for it to be a fag to walk. But it was very it was well, it wasn’t really five I never saw probably more like a five to 10 minute drive. Along really kind of crazy Woody, dark pitch black roads with no sidewalks. Nobody walked. Nobody walks. Nobody walks. Wow. Nobody walks. Okay. There’s no sidewalks so you can’t walk. There’s no pavements.

K Anderson  47:34

Yeah, it’s really that. I mean that really. They wanted you to drink and drive.

Timberlina  47:38

Kind of that’s the weird thing about the culture. That’s the kind of which is true. I mean, if you got back after 11 you couldn’t get a cab. I remember getting back. I think it was when I’d been to. I’ve been travelling. So I came back and I got back to the Mount Kisco station. And it was just before midnight, and there were no caps, the caps are gone. And I went to the police station, and I said, Look, there’s no caps. Can you give me a ride back? And they were like, Yeah, sure. I can’t believe I didn’t call up Steph or john, even if it was the middle of the night and ask but anyway, we I don’t remember why that happened. But yeah, I remember getting right back with it. So yes, you have this kind of strange sort of unaccepted rules, things that which everybody must have been doing almost to.

K Anderson  48:29

Yeah, anyway, sorry. That’s just like detail. I don’t need to know. So triangles, I’m just having a look at the back triangles haven’t even got the boiler room. Yeah, well, just looking at the review on the website. So triangles is three bars in one with three unique experiences for our customers. Whether you want to dance the night away on our 500 square foot dance floor. Have a quiet drink with friends in our intimate billiards lounge or relax and enjoy

Timberlina  49:02

out loud. Yes. 66 Sugar Hollow. Oh my god. Yes. Debbie’s account account by Malik. So why don’t

K Anderson  49:13

we start Oh, and they have movie nights karaoke and stripper nights. Do you remember? Yes. Maybe? Yes. Wait. karaoke? Yes. Did you perform it? Oh my God is all bless your heart. Yeah, yes. That’s why we’re doing it.

Timberlina  49:38

Okay. Oh, I shut down. I wonder what happened the day call could have been improved, but I really enjoyed my time there. The music was decent. The crowd was fun. I had a good time every time Danbury has lost a great cornerstone. Well, it has. If you want me to talk about urban regeneration, that’s this is now the segue for that.

K Anderson  49:56

But we won’t. What can we just Can we just keep reading these reviews for the time Because I quite enjoy I quite enjoy when people leave kind of weird reviews on these websites, since this person has given it two stars. She’s She’s only checked in once.

Timberlina  50:11

I was looking at Oh, yeah, she This is it. She’s just so she’s so mysterious. She’s so

K Anderson  50:17

cool. Is that what you’re saying?

Timberlina  50:19

Well, story is Long Island. Like it’s just maybe queens. So it’s it’s, it’s sort of like the wrong side of outside of town. I think I can say that was some kind of confidence, please, you know, tell me otherwise. So we don’t ask her. We don’t trust it, though. Because the worst story so she’s not even going into Manhattan. Yeah. So why is she going to Danbury to go to go to a gay bar?

K Anderson  50:46

Well, I mean, she does. She does say that, considering I usually pay nine to $12 a drink in New York City. So she does go to New York City. My my bartender was burly and pleasant. And in general, the place was a chill vibe with little shade. Don’t get me wrong, everybody was reading but they generally kept it to themselves except in the bathroom where the library was in session. Too much drag race. Oh, is that a Paris is burning thing, isn’t it? I said the best thing that could happen displaces if they sashay away the DJ create. So and then, so let’s move on to Franklin. It can be hit or miss. Sometimes you go into places dead with little going on. Other times it can be crowded and a lot of fun. True story True story. I mean, that’s just so insightful.

Timberlina  51:44

Whatever you’re interested in, in case like, you know, a lot of people that have travelled a long time to you know, like I would drive an hour. So you know, you’re driving an hour to go to a bar where there’s five people in there that just studying that’s just so you can be in a gay bar.

K Anderson  52:01

Let’s take a look at the one from Eb from 2008 what with its proximity to demographically divergent Fairfield Putnam, Westchester, Litchfield and Dutchess County’s try throws a surreal combination of young just off the established gay icy ice storm. Yes. Well, I know the film The ice storm is that what

Timberlina  52:28

is I think that that’s what it’s about because the ice storm was set in a particular part of New York which is Westchester, which is this whole area codes, trees and big houses. Okay, for trees and big houses and Volvo’s

K Anderson  52:41

okay. Guppy, that’s what I’m talking about. It says guppies hardscrabble bears. What’s that scrapple festival Okay, a copy is gay yuppie. Oh, okay, sorry. Oh, that’s

Timberlina  52:59

funny giving it two stars. hardscrabble bears, I think what that means is hardscrabble is like, you know, scars, like a proper country like Hopper, sort of, kind of chequered shirt, burly.

K Anderson  53:12

So like they play Scrabble in a really aggressive way.

Timberlina  53:15

Yes, they discover that a really aggressive okay with the hard way.

K Anderson  53:19

Yeah. Ex Pat New Yorkers and closeted marriage guys who genuinely work it’s a loose parking lot rather than rent. This is

Timberlina  53:29

what your your, your research is. Parker This is exactly this is this could not have rounded it up more.

K Anderson  53:39

Well, it goes on. Although the music often sucks. The multifarious crowd makes its own fun by drinking lots and striking up conversations. Yeah. I don’t understand what the next sentence says.

Timberlina  53:55

There was really Bradley conversations smokers and reanna refugees will welcome the large enclosed outdoor space

K Anderson  54:02

with the Rianna refugee. I think he needs pot smokers. But what Yeah, okay. Briana likes to smoke weed, doesn’t she but this is 2008 Yeah, we I was random around that. Is that what you’re saying? Well, is it Rianna that they were

Timberlina  54:25

telling you all correctly see again, I’m gonna let that shit up. Nicely think it means we haven’t. When did she start? That’s a whole other thing.

K Anderson  54:35

How do you be a refugee of Rianna? Any Well,

Timberlina  54:40

I think they’re just trying to be vague, because, you know, it’s about weed. And it was 2008 before legalisation. So, anyway, thank you. Now I want to know when we started her career, but anyway, large enclosed outdoor space. Yes, I remember that festival moment that totally it was chat. It was great. It was amazing. It was amazing. It was a different experience in the boiler room, but that’s

K Anderson  55:05

what we say are the main differences then. Well,

Timberlina  55:09

the boiler room was a sleazy his village. Possibly the friendliest barber ever been to us. He wasn’t even that sleazy. It kind of didn’t know. It was the most friendly, easygoing, welcoming, queer as fuck. We’re taking no shit from anybody else. Don’t give me no heteronormative bullcrap. Yes, come in for happy hour, we will watch Xena on the TV. Six days or seven o’clock, I would be there I would be there most Saturday nights, I would go down to the boiler room, watch Xena be there in time for happy hour. And then how about a couple of long, very long because everything said a lot of ice, vodka tonics. And then I might even get home at a respectable hour, you know, or I would just stay in play as as I know, that was also a second. So I had tried to go solo the year I had triangles, which was sort of like haven of Westchester, parochial country, you know, life as it were the good life version. And then there was there was the boiler room downtown, which offered so much more and was also so much more exciting because you were actually in Manhattan, you were down you were in the days of yore where it’s actually an alphabet Street. You are moving in Tompkins Square Park where you may want to go and score some weed or smoke weed or you would

K Anderson  56:41

Pollyanna refugee

Timberlina  56:43

theory and refuse to pop over the road to someone’s apartment and have a quick shimmy and then go back to the bar where you’d go to the amazing diner where Quentin crispy sang out and eat all his food, all his meals for you would go to one of the many other local bars which would be amazing. And I have to say the night 1996 pride in New York was was amazing. And I had a boyfriend who I met in Mount Kisco. I had found this guy who I’d spent months being totally obsessed well in love with him last week. And he used to hang out at the Starbucks cafe in Mount Kisco, which, at the time, you know, Starbucks was young an incident so we thought it was new and exciting and unusual for me to go and hang out there. There was another independent coffee shop, but we didn’t go there quite a while because it didn’t quite have the same number anyway. And we would go and we were and eventually one day I stumbled up but I knew he had to be clear. I knew he had to be clear because he just had such a great wardrobe. You know it? Yeah. Especially in you know, in in the burbs, you know, somebody, somebody’s bleaching their hair, blonde colour, and then dyeing it green light, like they kind of do now, you know, that kind of washed out coloured hair thing? Yeah. The kids are doing he was doing that back in the 90s. Oh, Mikey. Anyway, so one day, I summed up the courage to ask him if he was batting for the same team as mine, and Francis misquoting me to pride in the city. And he was like, sure, that sounds great. So we went in and added time horizon. And this was all like, through various people I’ve met at the boiler room, we just went from one party to the next we stayed at macro focus, and John’s they were dynamite. I mean, it was just like,


after if you go to a bar,

Timberlina  58:41

a couple of times, you start being I mean, it was like this, and I hope it’s still like this. Now, maybe it isn’t, sometimes, you kind of start being a bit familiar. You know, and what was amazing was sort of how easy and also yet how genuine, some of these quiet like fleeting relationships work, but they would be like, really intense. And maybe, like, for me, I always thought that maybe part of that liberation is is about living five or 6000 miles away from home and not having to deal with the fact that you you know, the, the sort of lingering terrorist of your childhood with you wherever you go, when you really live at home. When you move yourself geographically, by the way, you know, you There’s nothing to bump into you are significantly removed from yourself that you kind of take another you take on another version of yourself. That’s that’s how I feel. That’s how I feel I experienced it. And again, with this newfound confidence, it was just and yeah, I think by the end of that year, there’s definitely huge, significant sexual confidence shift in me. There was still a bit fraught but hadn’t really good time. And hanging out in the boiler room and just remember that because I was there on my birthday. Sorry, I’m going off on one there, but I was there on my way. There was the week Before Christmas, and I had gone in, specifically to go to the boiler room and just have a giggle, and some, there were some kind of pie going on there anyway. And luscious. He was the bar. Kind of, I don’t know, what would you say, Mother, shall we say? Last time I saw lashes, they were running a bar in Silverlake in LA they all moved out to LA? A few years in the late 90s. Anyway, they were like, you know, hey, hey, you know, hey, do what are you doing here? I was like, Well, you know, I’m from out of town, I’d come down from the boiler room, I really want to start. This is I just moved here. I’m English. And it’s my birthday. And before I knew it, everybody just leaped upon me. And that was when I first discovered Jagermeister. And it got me out to Egypt based on Jagermeister. And we just had a good time. And then it was just like, boom, that was it. So I’m going back to every week after Danny was like, this is these are my people. This is my home, in the city. And it was great was absolutely amazing.

K Anderson  1:01:03

Oh, I’ve scribbled this down. So it might not be of any relevance. You said you saw a pageant at triangles? I did. It was a Halloween fancy dress competition. And like a drag. If there wasn’t drag, then it was just

Timberlina  1:01:19

no, it wasn’t drag, though. I think maybe there were a couple of drag, there were some very clever drag, there was some very good, you know, from from the guppies and the you know, the the newly residing in the local sort of New York and Asia as well. I mean, it was it was an interesting clientele, because it was a really kind of broadly speaking, we were there. And I remember there was a really great sort of young sort of academic looking lesbian, he dressed up as a paraglider complete with, complete with the parachute, sort of our mind. I also remember, don’t think to Mariah Carey that night. I didn’t wear no wind dresses, the devil, which is somewhat predictable. I remember there being a berry guy there, but I can’t remember where he came out. And now it wasn’t it wasn’t surprised. It was surprisingly not drag braggy. And I think also, again, that was kind of like what appealed to me, because there was a sort of broader sense of humour, border kind of notion of the culture, which I find so difficult to kind of get on with now is this concentric RuPaul drag race culture of queerness, which we seem to have now got ourselves into?

K Anderson  1:02:37

What is it? So you think, what, sorry, what do you mean?

Timberlina  1:02:42

What I think is, and this is gonna, this might sound a bit weird or controversial, or whatever. I feel like there was a greater sense of liberation, then. And I really missed that. And I feel like a lot of younger queers don’t necessarily, not that I would recommend it. And, you know, obviously, one celebrates the fact that the point is, kids don’t need to kind of have to deal with that. But some people do, and they deal with in horrible ways. I just think that then, it was a pinnacle of our time, you know, a pinnacle of sort of real kind of shifting an ideology, the 90s was trans, totally transformative. I don’t know if I said this already. But they were, it was a real shift in terms of thinking, it sort of went from being a kind of margin, still a quite marginal cultural community, to being a wheel kind of dominant, and especially kind of consumer force, like capitalism, we’ve created its own capital, p pound, and very much something that people talked about. And it was when there was also a kind of counterculture to that. And Mark Simpson wrote a book called anti gay, which was all about how gay had been kind of consumed by capitalism, and been turned into a lifestyle rather than a sexual identity. And it was really exciting to be involved. And part of these conversations, which were happening right now, which really sort of defined how, especially for those of us who really identified as being queer, and gave us a sort of sense of justification to that. So a lot of these venues have been there for some time, and are still very kind of interests are somehow entrenched in the theme, but at the same time, there was still idea that there is a sort of deviants around them, but at the same time, they are much more acceptable. And so this is also a time when the whole idea of like having a bridge and tunnel crowd in Manhattan, New York was amazing during the 90s. And people kept like people came from all over the place and from like, the borough beyond the burbs from all over the states as well, would come to these bars and it was just I don’t know, it was The beginning something so I was saying, what I felt then was that I had much more of a kind of rite of passage to find my sexual identity. And I feel right now that sexual identity is something that is given to you. And this is how you do it, you kind of get it with a manual. And I think as much as that’s great, on the one hand, if you choose to accept it, you do not have to go down the really tricky routes that that you went down before. But what I what I think is difficult is when people don’t want to subscribe to that, how do you, you know, you then you’ve ultimately somehow been splintered from that. And I’ve, I feel like people should be able to find their own way. And it’s not prescribed.

K Anderson  1:05:43

So what so you trying to say that like in the past, everyone had to forge their own path, and therefore it was more authentic. And now you kind of get a manual that’s like this. Yes. Yes, that’s exactly what I’m trying to say. Was I didn’t, I didn’t know, it makes sense. And like I can appreciate, I guess what you’re trying to say that? Well, what I think you’re trying to say that, like, it’s, it’s more authentic, if it’s something you’ve worked out on your own, rather than something you’ve been told to do. But can’t you kind of like, you know, it’s like watching a YouTube tutorial video for how to like, cut your own hair or something like, you’re not going and like learning from, you know, you’re not kind of going through lots of mistakes in order to learn how to cut hair, you’re, you know, skipping a bunch of steps, but you can still then kind of put your own flair on it, right?

Timberlina  1:06:48

Yes, I mean, I think you can, I think it depends on how you even get to the point where you’re creating the flare. And I think that



Timberlina  1:06:58

know, one of the tricky issues that we have, especially within the context of tea being a you know, as it should be a much more widely accessible and talked about notion of sexuality, and gender. And I feel like sometimes it’s, we are much quicker to create and sort of trap people into a pigeonhole, then to allow people to go through a really fluid post process, until like, you know, over a period of like, years, decades, even to find a kind of mean, I feel like we expect and we also expect people to have the decisions made so that then everybody else can basically conformance foods as possible. And we can get on like, there’s no issue. Thank you very much. You know, my mic, my career experience is not about that my career experience is still happening around me and evolving, as opposed to it being something prescribed to me at an early age. Right, you are now 21, you are now a fully fledged gay man. And you can go and do whatever you like. And you can really act and assimilate straight culture because it’s not really an issue. And then you can have a really quiet life. Thank you very much. Well, I think that brings along a whole other bunch of issues, which people don’t even want to talk about, let alone can talk about now. Because I just think that you can never prescribe what is going on with your life because things change so rapidly and so quickly, both in your mind and in the world around you. And I find it really, you know, I find it quite sad, that queer identities become so boring, and yet so bloody factional. And well, we’re supposed to be at the top end of the cultural pyramids, and everybody else had to do their shit. And it feels like now we’ve kind of lost that share a bit. But anyway, that’s a whole different story.

K Anderson  1:08:54

Yeah, I don’t know, I didn’t like this. I do kind of see what you’re saying and kind of agree with what you’re saying. But at the same time, like, for those queer kids who are 14, who like don’t really know what’s going on, I think it’s much better for them to have some kind of touch points to be like, oh, okay, okay, I get this. Oh, okay. Yeah, this is kind of explained here. And yeah, there’s problems with putting things in boxes and therefore putting people in boxes. But I think, yeah, I mean, as a as a cisgendered, white man who kind of had it easy in terms of coming out. I’m probably not in the best position to talk about this, but knowing that kids who have it worse than I did have that. materials to be signposted to find themselves. Absolutely. really reassuring.

Timberlina  1:10:01

But I think there’s a difference in I think there’s a difference between signposting and creating dominant. Yeah. Yes, exactly. I think that it should work for me. I love the new ones anyway. And I just feel like it could be, you know, we can embrace new ones a lot more than we do now. I feel like yeah, it’s a lot less nuanced. Now. Humans are like,

K Anderson  1:10:23

Yeah, we are. We have to accept that. Like, we need to put things in boxes and then have big flashing signs around them to be like, oh, okay, I get this.

Timberlina  1:10:32

Exactly. We need mother nature to give us a pandemic to bring us down a notch so we don’t keep trying to destroy them. And if we don’t follow our heart, then last chance. Anyway,

K Anderson  1:10:41

that’s my math and nervous. Anyway, let’s go back to a heavy night. Did you ever go to triangles in Connecticut? Well, if you did, I would love to hear from you. Please share any stories or anecdotes or photos through social media. You can find me on most platforms, that’s Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and the rest with the user handle K Anderson music. And you can also find out more about Tim billionaire by visiting her website, Tim billina.co.uk. And also Timberland, it hosts her own podcast called live right, which you can hear on all good podcast platforms. Love spaces is not only a podcast, but a concept record as well. I’ve been writing songs about queer venues and the people who used to live their lives there. And we’ll be releasing songs over the coming year and a bit you can hear the first thing go well groomed toys, which is also playing underneath my talking right now on all good streaming platforms. If you like this episode, I would really appreciate if you subscribe, left a review on Apple podcasts or just told someone who you think might be interested in having a listen to. I am K Anderson and you have been listening