But before she was Candy she was a fresh faced 18 year old who worked herself all the way up from the glass collector to the manager of Instinct Bar, a gay bar in Cork that opened in the naughties.
Follow Candy on Instagram.
Candy Warhol 00:00
So many people are new coming up in the scene don’t know what that venue was, or they don’t know the history of it and I again, that’s why I just feel so it’s so important like knowing your history. I’m like, No, I was there before you but I find it really sad sometimes when I’m walking through my city and loafers like the oldest bar in Ireland is close and instinct is now like a food shop and like all these club nights are gone.
K Anderson 00:27
I am K Anderson and you are listening to lost spaces, a podcast that mourns the death of queer nightlife. Every episode I talk to a different person about a venue from their past, the memories they created there and the people that they used to know. Candy waterhole is co host of Comedy Central UK dragon aeons. Mother and hbic of the house of murky and yeah, an absolute sweetheart. But before she was candy, she was a fresh faced 18 year old who worked herself all the way up from glass collector to the manager of instinct bar in Cork. I mean, can you imagine that they’re putting an 18 year old in charge of your part. Ridiculous. So we are going to be talking about instinct bar. instinct. That is a very mid naughties name. Um, you know what the tagline was? Guess. me You’re no, I’m just not unformed.
Candy Warhol 02:03
It was instinct, dot, dot, dot follow yours.
K Anderson 02:09
Are you sure it wasn’t a deodorant? That sounds like Yeah.
Candy Warhol 02:14
And I know it’s so funny. When I was thinking back to like, so there was actually like four or five spaces in Cork. Open at the time. And when I was looking at their names, I think back the names. Yeah, there’s just something about like 90s, mid noughties gay. It’s just that like, these are at like, funny names. So I don’t know what that was at the time. I don’t know. But that thank God. That’s just not that. I think that’s all over right.
K Anderson 02:40
Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. But what were some of the others then?
Candy Warhol 02:44
So. So the the main buyer in Cork at the time was instinct. And then there was so already like, alternative night that was just open on Wednesdays was called freak seam. And then there was like, a more like a queer space called the other place. And then there was flux. And then there was, Oh, my God. There was two other nights, I think that were just opened on a Friday or Saturday called rubies, sinners. And then there was this gay pub that actually is the was up until a few years ago, the oldest queer establishment in Ireland was the very first to open and that was called loafers. And that closed a couple of years ago. Yeah. So it’s crazy now that there’s technically only one gay bar and all the court can at that time. know, for me when I would have been going to like the likes of instinct that was 2008. And to have that was like, an abundance of,
K Anderson 03:51
well, I was crazy, like so. So for those that don’t know, homosexuality wasn’t decriminalised in Ireland until like, the 90s 1990.
Candy Warhol 04:01
I think it was 93 or 94.
K Anderson 04:07
And then, and then on top of that, cork is pretty small a city. So for it to have all of those kind of queered nights going on, like 10 years after decriminalisation. That’s pretty like,
Candy Warhol 04:19
Yeah, well, yeah, like for cork is always a confusing one, because cork is actually the biggest county in Ireland, but then city wise, it would be like, not huge, so. So like Dublin is obviously you know, the main city in Ireland, followed by cork and Galway. And so there’s only a few places in Northern Ireland that would have a gay bar. Now. What Yeah, for I think this is happening all over it, you know that and again, it’s a great reason why you’re doing this podcast, but for some reason, up to five and 10 years ago, there was an abundance of career venues and they’re just all very quickly closing Um, and I think I just find it Yeah, I find it baffling that when I was coming out hosts and clubbing for the first time, that there was actually a lot of options compared to now, you know, what, when being gay or being a queer person is far more acceptable and unsafe now, there’s sometimes far less choice. And then that kind of like brings the debate then is there a need? Is there not an age because that’s more accepting, but I always feel that there is a need for queer spaces, you know?
K Anderson 05:32
Yeah. What have they space has been replaced by things online, I suppose.
Candy Warhol 05:36
Yeah. Yeah. online or club nights? Or is it just, you know, you, you can go to a lot of pubs and bars now, especially in Cork, that are primarily, you know, quote, strafes venues and feel safe. Holding a guy’s hand, you know, and I, and yeah, I completely get that. But I think there’s something sad as well, for having your own space and having a clear space where you just know, okay, you have the 100% security that nothing is going to happen. Yeah. And you can, you know, maybe get a congress election as the homes and a dry Queen, you know, but for us. Yeah, you know, like, I get asked that a lot is there is there a need for queer spaces, and I 100% think that there always will be and that there shouldn’t be, you know, I’m all for one, integrating everybody and, and incorporating, you know, like queer knights and, and, you know, primarily straightest together. But I think that there’s just, again, something sad for just having the space that you can go to and feel like, it’s yours.
K Anderson 06:34
And so then with instinct bar, in my extensive research online, that opened in 2004. And then the last trace of anything that I found was a post from 2008, saying, where we’re now five years old, and we’ve been going strong since we opened in 2004. And then nothing, nothing. But you said that you started going there in 2008. So did it continue on beyond that?
Candy Warhol 07:05
Yeah, did for a little while. Um, so yeah, this is really bizarre. Like the story I’m What’s so funny is, it’s one of those things, you know, you have experiences in your life where you just slightly Forget about it. And then when you when you speak about them, when you think about them, especially for something like this, we actually have to refresh your memories. Things just come flooding back, but in a way, where you’re like, wow, that place really meant so much to me, and I can’t believe I forgot stuff. So, I, I came out when I, I came out in two, I think around 2006. I was 16. And I was in fourth year in college. And then I turned 18 at the beginning of my sixth year. And obviously I’d been waiting the whole time, you know, I’m gonna have like my first gay bar experience. And and yeah, instinct was the very first place that I went on my 18th birthday. And it was, you know, it was just a cool place to be and like, looking back is probably like the only base to be properly like on a Saturday night. And I remember just being like, so excited. I thought I was going somewhere just like so alternative and so underground. And yeah, I remember like, I mean, really like to give you the layout of it was when you walked in, it was pretty much like a just an Irish Pub. That was quite dark. And then there was like, a makeshift dance floor with a DJ on a stripper pole. That was like, the cool. Last thing. If you got your steak on that pole, like people would just be like, Yes, I have it bred.
K Anderson 08:38
And you better Hang on. Did you just say it was like a typical Irish pub and then say with a stripper pole?
Candy Warhol 08:45
It was like, yeah, it was a it was a typical Irish Pub. And then they whoever bought it was like, Okay, let’s make a dance floor in the back and put a pole on, like soggy.
K Anderson 08:55
So you bet you’re not saying that a typical Irish bar comes with a stripper pole. Just so you
Candy Warhol 09:01
know, which is the Friday tours. I do apologise. Yeah. But yeah, so I would have pretty much I mean, either a Friday night or Saturday night that out there, up until the end of my school year. And I remember, you know, it was where I made a lot of my first gay friends at the time, it was where I had my first gay kiss. And it was gay. I would have kissed I guess girls and stuff when I was younger,
K Anderson 09:29
like why would you do that? Yeah,
Candy Warhol 09:31
I know. Yeah. But I would have guessed girls I’m for some reason I was just really like all credit as a teen. So I just always made the decision, even though I would have been asked Oh, by guys, you know, on the typical MSN, I was I always made that decision of you know, I’m going to wait till I’m 18 so I can go clubbing so that I can date property. So I had my first gay case when I was 18. And then then, yeah, when when I finished school in June, I had a really good friend Lauren’s He was working in the bar at the time and to me at the time he was very cool and I saw Mockingbird this to this day where he was kind of like in my space cares like very Jeffree Star handbag jeans jewellery very cool like makeup and extensions and just like all around cool at that time and I think actually this Friday he I think he did go on a tour hung out with Jeffree Star at the time so it was like To me it was just like oh my god so cool. And he him and me would go spec freak scene on a Wednesday which was like again a makeshift club night. And he got me a job in instinct when I finished school in June so then suddenly I was like working in what I thought was the coolest space in Cork City. So
K Anderson 10:47
you made it you just pay early
Candy Warhol 10:49
I felt like I made an I felt like I was one of the cool kids. And then then I just had like what I remember although it was like ups and downs I just had like such a cool year like working in this gay bar. I got into our college so I was like would work in our college sorry studying icons Monday to Friday in a different city Limerick get the boss down work Friday, Saturday in the club. And then I worked myself up to events manager on like supervisor on like DJ in the bar. So I would like DJ and come up with like, the the idea the teams for the events and stuff like that. But I stopped like the wildest memories in there. And now when I walk past that builds him because now with a co op, like a food Co Op. So when I walk past there, I will just look in and be like, okay, where that like cheese and I would hang off those handlebars at six in the morning after a lock in completely out of my head. You know, it’s just fun. Looking back. We just saw like the wireless times on there. And I think that’s what really that phase was known for. It wasn’t known for being classy or clean or like, go like, yeah, the super swanky play. There was just like all was a riot. And there it was packed. So constantly like honestly, I’m pretty sure the capacity was 150 I knew we’d get like 300 odd people in there on a busy Saturday night completely on top of each other like sweating. Like, like dancing to what age Oh girl I would or like I think I came out in 2008. So like just all of that just like the bath sachet nights, and they would have things like foam parties. It’s like everything as tacky as you can possibly imagine like foam parties and like Gaga impersonator and like, just, oh my god, like we don’t look back. And like I thought that was the coolest thing.
K Anderson 12:45
It sounds like it was so if we just then cycle back to the first night. Oh my god. Yeah. So you were you talked about the anticipation and how excited you were in the build up to it. Do you remember like that? What happened when you came through the door the first time.
Candy Warhol 13:01
I remember being really nervous going up to the bouncer to hand him my ID because I had just turned AC and that’s oddly for years like a feeling like stayed with me every time I would go to a bouncer I’m not sure why I remember just being so excited going in but also quite nervous, I think as a lot of young gay men will be and just just this feeling of like, oh, wow, this is this, I thought it was gonna be this massive nightclub with like, different levels. And, and it really was like this little pub, and then the dance floor. So I remember just the I think I had the I had my 18th birthday that night and a separate bar. And then myself and a buyers 10 or 15 friends went. And I remember dancing to like my favourite band girls allowed I think it was something kind of knew was hired at the top. Like, absolutely, Bob thing my absolute life. But also, I think again, it’s something a lot of gay men can like relate to when they’re when when they’re 18 being in that gamer bar and like for the first time feeling people’s eyes on you. And vice versa. So like having it’s been checked out and I can go there at the same time for the first time and being slightly aware of yourself and oh, like they you the new young like, because you’re a small time like, like one of the young new gay guys like walk in, you know, it’s not like you’re like in again in London or New York, where there’s like 1000s of us. This is like maybe like 100 or 200 of us, you know, it’s just that Yeah, which is like a huge mix of feelings. I remember just being really excited. And I remember, especially for the first few months. I don’t know why I would always lie even though I was added to my parents on like, quite proud and excited to be gay at the time. They’d be like, where’d you go on Friday and I would always say a different bar. Just because at the time I just I just felt like I was somewhere that was really underground. And the course. And that’s what they thought as well. When I first started working there, they thought they just envisioned that they told me this years later, they envisioned me working in the bar and being like a leather cruising buyer. And that was not. That was me behind the DJ decks playing girls allowed and tardieu what a smoke machine like, yeah.
K Anderson 15:21
I mean, it’s kind of close to a leather bar. I mean, oh, yeah. Oh, my God. But that’s Yeah, that’s really interesting, isn’t it? Do you think it’s that? Like, for one of a better term that internalised homophobia?
Candy Warhol 15:39
Yeah. 100% Oh, that’s completely what it was, I was ashamed. But why? Um, I get like, upset now when I think about it as to why but again, like growing up, like now, oh, my God, I’m so lucky with my parents and my family. But growing up. Again, it was just what a difference I think a decade makes because 10 years ago, just things were very, very different. And roping off. Like in my teens, I knew I was getting, I mean, I knew I was gay. And I already knew I was attracted to boys from the age of like, seven or eight. But and then I and then I realised that I was gay when I was 12, or 13. And just through those years, it was always a negative. So in school, you know, I was a girl or gay, faggot, beaten up, like just called ire. So it was from a young age, taught to me that this was a negative bad thing. And because, as you know, I speak a lot about how lucky we are today. Although we have a long way to come, we’re very lucky today with the amount of mainstream personalities that are open. And back then, really, it was if someone was open, it was, you know, like the camp character and Coronation Street. Like, just so many extremely flamboyant. And, and so yeah, I’d never had somebody to relate to I was just always this kind of, you know, there. I was definitely said to me a couple of times, you know, Oh, thank God, you’re not gay, or like, at least we know, you’re not gay, like growing up, which was really, I think, a way of my parents deflecting as well. And so yeah, I think I think, although I came out to my friends at 16, and I came back my parents at 17, I think for the first year or two, there was still a very much a secrecy of trees about me that were just want to keep things guard, like guarded. And up until I think about when I was 21. And I brought somebody home for the first time. And that was really my test of like, are things that are they’re going to, she’s going to hit the fan or it’s going to be okay, and it was okay. And then really, once the drag came into things, like the dynamic of the family completely changed, and now it’s a completely different worlds, but just at the time. I mean, we joked earlier about like the foam party. And I remember it was a Friday night, went to the foreign party, couldn’t get a car because I was so okay, from head to toe, what my friends were shivering and like laughing so much. And I got home and all my clothes were soaked. And I remember my mom coming in being like, why did you go last night and I said, a different bar. And she said, I was having I was like, oh, there was a phone party. And then she, her best friend’s daughter was at the bar that I said I was and she was like, there wasn’t a phone party there last night. And that’s when I was I caught I, there was almost this era of like, to me, I was saying, Why am I annoying? Yeah, you know, but again, I mean, it was slightly proven to me a years later, when my parents told me that that’s what they thought I was I like this sort of, like, leather bar getting like whipped by a daddy. You know,
K Anderson 18:43
but so hang. Okay, so there’s a few questions I have following up here. So that first of all that poor boy that you brought in to test your parents. And I hope I hope he’s okay. Second of all, like so is your mom this kind of meddling type then that she’s like, gonna go and check out with this person and this person and this person? And that’s how she found out?
Candy Warhol 19:04
No, I think my mom always to this day is knows when I’m lying. She always knows I just have this weird habit I think of like, when I feel like I’ve been caught out on it’s probably me getting in my own head, that I’m just better protected. And, and, and like my mother, you know, from from knowing the truth, but I mean, once you kind of like, release yourself from that and kind of like just stop caring. You just realise like other people generally will too. But I definitely know that for the first year or two that wasn’t something that was in my head. I do know that that was a worry. You know, there was what I remember coming out and there them asking or saying to me that I was going to have a really hard life and like and I remember going well, I’ve been out for a year already and like everything has been super positive so far in here, you know, and yes, Jesus for all of us. I’m just something we can all relate to you there. There is very, as much as we’re like, why We’re getting mainstream attention media, why are with so much better to be open as a LGBT co a plus person? There’s so really hard aspects of it. And, and I yeah, I think when it comes to your, your family especially, it can hardly relate to her relate to them sometimes. And they do have that worry for you that things, you know, yeah, again, we don’t have that norm. So
K Anderson 20:26
well, this this whole Yeah, it’s I mean, it’s this whole world that they are never going to understand and understand that you are part of, and that kind of distances you from them, whether you like it or not,
Candy Warhol 20:39
exactly. And there was also like this sense as well, but I also didn’t want to share it with them. Because at the time, I was very much like this space is mine. Yeah. And this space is like where me and my gay friends go. And it’s really special to me, because that’s where I’m learning a bit more about myself. But I’m also I to know able to like flamboyantly dance around to the sugar babes and girls allowed and Gaga and be like, yeah, like I can, I can be really count. See, you know, so like, I thought he was like, why would you want to share all of that as well with your parents? You know? Well, yeah.
K Anderson 21:15
And, and this, I want to talk a bit more about the secret of thing as well, because that something like, you know that there’s bits of your character that you’re not really sure if it’s because of your queerness or because yeah, like, just just because so I am quite a secretive person, but not like, I didn’t know. Yeah, I don’t I don’t know if it is linked to that internalised homophobia or protecting people, by Yeah, by giving them half truths. And that’s kind of a learned behaviour. Or if that’s just that I’m like, I’d rather you didn’t. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, do you? Do you carry any of that, like 100 rounds? Okay,
Candy Warhol 21:56
I’m a little bit a little bit, it’s something that I really, over the years come to look back on and assess. And I’m much more aware of, of that. That’s something that I used to do. And I remember my mom kind of saying, you know, once you go past 25, you’re really gonna stop giving two shits about what people think. And that’s, that’s 5050. Like, I really, really did kind of gain a new confidence over the last couple of years. And but I’m still a person that is quite self aware, I’m insecure at times. And I do worry about what people think or what they might say. So I wouldn’t wear like my heart on my sleeve constantly. Again, it’s, it’s it? Yeah, I think I think it’s completely like, yeah, I think protecting yourself. And also, let’s get this right. Just slightly, when it comes to queer things. I’m gay, I’m gay, there is a slight bit of shame. And I think that’s something that’s just been, like, ingrained to a lot of us growing up. And it’s really a lot of it, a lot of it’s gone. But there’s still a little bit of it there. You know, I mean, if you’re speaking to your grandfather, or somebody in your family, and they’re like, I date 90 girl, or like, like, what, what do you do for work? Sometimes with me, I’m like, I’m a drag queen. Well, when you look around your family, and there’s people getting insecure, I’m like, embarrassed, that’s like, a kind of, like, brings you back to like, you’ve been 12. And, you know, then you’re like, Well, you know, should I be insecure? Because you are, or so it’s a really, it’s an up and down thing with me. It’s, it’s, it’s something that like, gets better constantly. But it’s, it’s funny. Like, I think there’s something about being at home or like being back in your home city. And like things are like having somebody call you out on the street or make money. And it doesn’t bring you back to that into your 12 year old on time. You could have all the coping mechanisms in the world. But all it takes sometimes it’s just one small incidence, or words on yours completely brought back, you know,
K Anderson 24:02
yeah, and there’s that. And there’s that thing as well. So when you are in that position, and you take the path of least resistance, because you’re rationalising in order to to protect everyone else’s feelings, rather than protect your road, like you can understand in that moment, and you can you can rationalise that to yourself, but there is this thing that kind of just erodes, like, erodes you and like your sense of self value by doing that. And by making those choices over and over.
Candy Warhol 24:33
Yeah, completely. I know. We’ve got I think it’s exhausting as men sometimes. Yeah, yeah.
K Anderson 24:40
So let’s talk about girls loud because that’s a bit easier, I think. Oh my god is your favourite, Nadine. Oh, really? Oh, okay. We’re gonna Irish thing is that
Candy Warhol 24:52
the 5050 day. So I have two favourite members and that would be Nicola. And, and, and Nadine. When I was younger when I was 1516, Sarah was my favourite because she was just like the wild child party animal. And then I went to see them. I think it was. Okay, so I’ve seen them live six times.
K Anderson 25:14
So you weren’t fooling us?
Candy Warhol 25:15
Oh, no. So yeah, when I saw them live, or I think the second time, second or third time and I saw Nicola in for like, why’s porcelain, like, scared and I was like, I just have a thing. We’re like poor singers. And I’m red hair. Just typical gay. And she is she’s stunning. I think she’s an absolutely incredible vocalist. Her solo album, I think, just like some of her songwriting is fantastic. But then also, Nadine, see, you have to think as well, right? You’re like, Nadine was like in our Irish pop stars. So I don’t know if you know the whole incident like every week, I do not know the incident. So that was like all over the price over here. That was like all everybody was like, when that moment happened on TV. Every person in Ireland was watching it because we don’t have like four channels. So everyone was like saying, and when she got into girls a liar, the whole country was so proud of her. So every time she’s done something, are you not that God Another thing I think on the album, I’ve just always had like this privateness, but also class vocalist, class dancer, the hair orography. The look, or solo material is fantastic. And I just think she is like her accent so funny. She’s such a great sense of humour. And I don’t think you were expecting all of that. Well,
K Anderson 26:34
yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, it was a bit of a throwaway question. But you know, now I know a bit more about you. move on from my first time I’ve ever said that. Oh, I’m sorry. Yeah, let’s bring it back.
Candy Warhol 26:48
I’m trying I’m trying to think of more like sword. It’s like, absolutely, like crazy stories that would have come from that bar. Boss.
K Anderson 26:56
Well, I screw it. So I scribbled down when you were talking about your career progression through the through the bar, that you were events manager for a while? Tell me Yeah, what, what does that role entail?
Candy Warhol 27:09
That was like, and I think I can talk about this now because it was like 10 years ago, but like, at the time, it was like, oddly, you know, what a small time is like, it was like this really controversial time and the bar and basically, the bar went into liquidation. And a lot of the staff left or fires on I stayed on I was this new manager came in, and I was just as like hungry guy who just like loved DJing loved pop music. I was like, I want to DJ. I want to like run events. I had never sat behind a deck set of decks before. My friend was a DJ and I would just watch and I remember him saying the manager being like, can you DJ and I was like, Yes, you know, I was like, I have my CDs burned. I can you know, I have a Napster Okay, I’m just being like, going behind the decks for the first time. I knew how to put in a CD press stop up and down with To be fair, most DJs and I got offered like four nights a week, because I just like knew my good music. I remember like my first track, Roshi Murphy overpowered into Hercules love affair blind. And I just remember being like do to do to do so I would do that four nights a week. And then I will be in charge then of coming up with Yeah, like different events. So we were just like, I mean, every talking about the past, we have under like a queer space, but that was really the seeds, or what would later become like my club night that I run now that does quite well. And I had seen in college somebody had to introduce me to party monster. And the book just go bloodbath. And I think like every all gay and just greedy relation with you,
K Anderson 28:50
someone to aspire to.
Candy Warhol 28:53
Fires you while I spoke to James, James James. Oh, boy. So in my first year, in the bar doing that, I was very good at DJ I was very good at putting events together but I was not professional I would say behind the buyer bus to bring it back to the party monster night, I decided to start this queer alternative night in Cork, that last reward nice. I’ll have you know, and because just at the time, there just wasn’t a nice they’re just there. People were there just wasn’t not seen. Like RuPaul drag race was on season one. So there was no dragging. There was no club kids. And if there was club kids, I was one of them. My best friend in time, Lawrence was one of them. And there was maybe a few other kind of seen hipstery kids, but that was that there was no need for a full club night for us. But I had a lot of fun myself and nerds were DJing we dressed as a kind of he’s a really good makeup artist. And I remember having this gorgeous smoky eye and I was dressed like a little angel, which was a nod to the movie, and we were DJing I mean, we got a nice clean Roads on there were some queens, k men, like a lot of students came, but people just didn’t know what it was. And then a couple of weeks later, the bar closed down. That’s why there was no other one. And about six months later, when I was in college, I, I, I just really wanted to get into bands and I wanted to run that night again. So when I call the original name of a night, like 1011 years ago was disco bloodbath, like how original. So because at the time, I wouldn’t have been a mainstream thing, and people are not wise. That’s like that sounds terrifying. And I’d really gotten into drag over that summer. And I decided when I was in college and Limerick to run it again, but maybe more as a show. So I did drag for the very first time and hosted as I had a DJ, I had lots of Queens on burlesque performers. And that actually started my whole drag career. So it was the exact same night and a different city and I happen to work and then that became like a regular thing and dastardly Limerick, and then I left college and then continued my dry career from there so it really having that space. And having that space to like actually run shit yourself. There might not have been a lot of people there. But really that space darsh it’s so much for me, it was also really where I saw my first drag queens, you know? Just in case you don’t know my, my great grand uncle was one of the world’s most famous drag queens, Danny LaRue. So I saw him before. Yeah, I saw him before when I was 14. And that was my very first drag show. Well, that was more of like a classic, family friendly show. And that when I was 18, and working in instinct, I remember my very first proper drag queen was an alternative Queen and cork her he used to before him or her name was Lucy Vaughn for and it was very alternative like shaved bald head very Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, like makeup up the face a bit divine undoing. She kind of stereotypical dress made out of balloons, popping the balloons, and it was New Year’s Eve, and I just thought it was beers. And I was so intimidated and so scared. And then there was another two queens. Oh my god, I need to remember their names Joanna, Joanna, Joanna writes, and Gloria Hall. And they don’t want to wait. So Joanna, right?
K Anderson 32:13
Yes. I understand the joke.
Candy Warhol 32:17
So that is an Irish.
K Anderson 32:20
Do you wanna? Oh, okay. Okay. Kk, like I say isn’t an Irish noise like, yeah, it always takes me a long time to figure out the joke. But I mean, Glory a whole I was right there.
Candy Warhol 32:30
Yeah, you were, I’d say you were ago. Yeah, so yeah, they would come on a Friday, once a month. And again, that was my real big introduction to drag. And cocky me at the time to be honest with I, I could do this. And I could do this better. Like every your greed. And there’s actually a good bit of like, Iris, the queer history, but we had this incredible drug competition like more like very alternative drug competition called the alternative is Ireland that ran from the late 80s up until 2012. And that was hosted by panty bliss, the drag queen in Dublin. And that was like prestigious to get into if you’re one of the 10 queens or club kids or dry kings picked and they would sometimes air that on TV, it was not big. And it was called like gay Christmas and art and like the theatre was over 2000 people to go and see that what cork would hold like heats for those. an instinct was tied in with the other venue that would run that. And so maybe 10 queens were competing against each other and one would be picked to go off to the nationals. And I remember working in instinct, and the DJ saying to me, you could do dry like, I used to do drag and he would be really good at it. And you should enter this competition and me going yeah, yeah, I fuckin show it. And I was like, obsessed with Andy Warhol at the time, because my art teacher in college school had introduced me to Andy Warhol and Lady Gaga was like just coming out. So it was very that kind of a cool electropop like, beginnings and I was enlisted in it, I was going to be a contestant. And then the week before the competition, it was cancelled. I know six months later though, I had gone that club night and a couple of weeks later they just invited me just be a contestant in the national one so I went straight in and 10 guys fucking local one was cancelled because even though I wasn’t that polished in September 2010 six months made a difference because I had six months to study and like watch loads of drag shows and if I had gone out like in the car one it wouldn’t have been a good moment but it was again it was just it was just this especially that summer of like working like as a DJ and like having having these like part of like Okay, I’m gonna do drag Oh, I gotta run events. Like having like logins and like having my again like first like a experiences on like staying up all night drinking. It was just like six months of like, a lot of firsts on A lot of like seeds for what was to come. Mm hmm. I even though it was like, again, it was messy, I look back on it with some really fond memories on thankfulness, because if I didn’t work there, I don’t know, I don’t know, like, I don’t know what I would be doing, or maybe I will be doing this, but it was, it was definitely just introduced me to so much. And I also just got away with like, almost shit. I remember, I remember, again, like just my friend Lawrence, who was working there at the time. Seeing him, you know, like sneak shots behind the bar while serving customers. And I’ll take like the off shot and like, just like, like, just be like, so sneaky. And I was a bar as a glass collector when I first started, and then I taught myself how to work behind the bar. And then by the time I was like, one of the people in charge on a Friday night, I was the only manager, I would have like two young girls like under underneath me was the only time I could ever say that. We were supposed to be finished at half 12. And I remember this every Friday night, we were supposed to be finished at half 12 I would get to like half tan quarter 11. And I would flash the lights to get all the customers hours. And we would be drinking the entire time. And then we go clubbing to like this game club night that was only open on Fridays called rubies. And we would go down thing there. And then we would come back and have a lock into like six in the morning. And then the next night the manager would be like, should we all stay for drinks tonight? We’re like, Oh, that sounds nice. Well, we would have been like drinking the bar dry the whole night before and like, like playing pop music and like swinging off the light bars. I was just when you just think back to that time. It’s just, like chaotic, but like so
K Anderson 36:44
lovely. And never and just not even thinking about the consequences of your actions. Because you were put in charge of a bar. How old? Are you? 18 That’s terrifying.
Candy Warhol 36:55
terrifying. Oh, exciting. I remember. So well. I mean, it was really hard. But like at the time, you know, I had been working with like, maybe a really close friends. And they were my first like proper gay friends. And the manager at the time was like, Oh, the buyer went into liquidation. All the staff were either like, let go or they moved on. And so that created a lot of conflict because a lot of the staff at the time who left went on to work in the there are competition, the compassion of gay bar, and instantly that relationship ended. So, which was so silly looking back now, and we’ve spoken about that, like since you I mean, I don’t really I would have contact with that voice, you know?
K Anderson 37:34
Oh, but so it was just like, you’re dead to me. Oh, I’m finding you in my space.
Candy Warhol 37:39
Oh, completely. Yeah. Now I’m pretty sorry, like, apologies have come through over the years, I’ve been like where we were so silly. You were a kid. I was like, Listen, I’m working two days a week. I’m in college, there’s this really handy job and I get to DJ, why would I leave? You know, so at the time, it was just really fun. But I remember the new manager at the time just saw kind of promising me that I was really good at coming up with a bandsaw or ideas and I was good at the music and I remember him handing the keys to me. And this is like three or four o’clock in the day. And I remember I got the keys on I closed the barn It was me on my own and it was quite I was always quite frightened to be in there on my own. It was an old fire station I think or firehouse or something like that where the
K Anderson 38:23
pole came from?
Candy Warhol 38:24
Maybe what if so it was quite creepy in there but I remember going in and ringing some of my friends I was like I’m a manager in a bar. And the very first thing I did was I went behind the decks I turned on girls and I was sexy. No no no. I could go on I filled the entire bar with smoke and I just ran around be like yeah, this is my life. And yeah, it only lasted six months but it was fucking great.
K Anderson 38:55
This is why I think it’s terrifying to put an 18 year old it’s
Candy Warhol 39:00
not a good idea I’m like if I knew now looking back that I could have gotten away with more I would have but I don’t who I was afraid of there was no one looking over me. Like we were in liquidation and they were like whatever just run it because I think the people who own the buyer on like 20 buyers in the city and they went into liquidation um they kept also open because we’re making money and they saw me as a way of okay he is he has good ideas on it’s bringing people in for like six months you know so silly actually really funny as well on I’m pretty sure I can talk about this now because who the fuck like whatever it’s like been 12 years though one of the main reasons that we all my manager was like oh at the time was and I find this so funny to this day. She decided to run like with the owner, the buyer like a two day music weekend. I’m book loads of like novelty acts. And one of the closing acts is going to be Bananarama, who are also I like obsessed with and They decided to cancel the event. But they also forgot to tell on it. Yeah. And I think that’s pretty much what happened on like Bananarama. We’re like we’re getting paid or full amount for this. Or she owes them like 1000s and 1000s and 1000s. And that was, that was one of the things that really like, push the bar into business. So I still love when I hear Bananarama and think about that, because I just find that so funny.
K Anderson 40:28
So, okay, so Bananarama would like hanging around outside like where? No.
Candy Warhol 40:34
They were told, like a week before that it wasn’t happening. And they were like, that’s not good enough. Were like Bananarama. So you’re gonna pay. You know, I can’t remember there was a Rick Astley there was like, there was a few other like, just like novelty act. And I remember like, they were all booked. And they were given like less than a week. Notice. I remember we had some really good like pop acts. They were like, I remember like, we have bewitched. And I’ve ever been to
K Anderson 40:57
a really good pop act and then say, bewitched,
Candy Warhol 41:00
yeah. Look, I’m like, I grew up on bewitch. So come on, I thought they were our Spice Girls. Um,
K Anderson 41:05
but the main thing and the takeaway that I’m getting from this conversation is that Bananarama were single handedly responsible for closing instinct.
Candy Warhol 41:14
Oh, completely. Yeah. Hi, good. Hey, just as long as you know that. Yeah. I remember that being on the DL. That’s probably like people from God into that’s probably going to be their first time listening to it. But I remember there’s so many just stories that I just like, I’m trying to wrap my head but I remember that just that really standing out to me by going Wait, we’ve cancelled the event away. They’re getting in touch and I do remember what the what the person who comes you know, with your letter of you know, your German court? Oh,
K Anderson 41:41
yeah. But no.
Candy Warhol 41:45
But I something man, summon. Yeah, yeah, there was there was quite a few letters drop dead.
K Anderson 41:52
Wow. You don’t want to fuck with Rick Astley or banana ROM? Oh, he’s just Oh,
Candy Warhol 41:58
I’m sorry. And Karen, you don’t want to talk with them. But like, I hope you know who’s like self employed and working like and not like, well, if somebody fucked up me and cancel my gig a couple of days before? I wouldn’t be the same. I’m not like Not to mention, but being banana fucking Marhaba.
K Anderson 42:13
Well, I mean, yeah. Okay, like, I know, making light of this. But like, it’s pretty, pretty standard thing to do. If you’re going to cancel the event, tell people that you’ve booked that you’ve cancelled the event? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. So. So maybe it was okay to put an 18 year old in charge, given what was what came before.
Candy Warhol 42:32
Be honest. That place I mean, the the reason that we can’t we will close down was somebody bought it. So like, although that we weren’t like mega busy at the time, because basically what happened was, there was a separate bar, somewhere else in the city. And they had like, on a Wednesday night, a club nice. And but they were primarily straight bar. But the owner was gay at the time. And he always wanted it to be a gay bar,
K Anderson 42:56
where the owner at the time was gay, or he was gay at the time,
Candy Warhol 42:59
they, the owner, the owner, or the manager of that venue was gay. And I knew and he wanted that venue to be a gay bar wanted to, you know, are Monday to Sunday. And the week we goes for one week, when the manager was let go. And there was, you know, new staff being brought in and joined that week, they switched it like that to a game, though, that really affected us and closes down a lot. I’m like, 90% of the staff from my old bar went there. So that really sours things for us as well, because I was really like, I remember being so excited, why we got to choose your work as you advance, I got to hire some of my friends to come in. I mean, they really were like, everything’s fine. So you know, but I was also like, a loss of my friends at the time. And then my first experience of like, having business rivalry or club night rivalry, or like other people on the scene. And that’s something that’s always stuck with me because I run. I have like a drag house mark. Yeah, we are like a cabaret. We have our club nights, and it’s always stuck in my head. Why, when you’re trying to create something that should be so special? And so, you know, a safe space? Why would I try to tear others down? Who are maybe trying to do the same thing? And I find that to say, I know, obviously, we’re buyers and club nights, it’s a money thing as well, like, we’re businesses, we’re trying to make a living. But you have like, I just I don’t think it’s there. Yeah, I’ve always found that fascinating. And like, we need these spaces. And like, it’s important that we all stay open and support each other and maybe we can all support, stay open. Don’t try to tear each other down. You know, I know for a fact, different buyers in the time at the time in Cork would be going out of their way to try and get the other one in trouble.
K Anderson 44:47
Yeah, yeah. Do you? Do you find that with drag as well?
Candy Warhol 44:54
I talk about this a lot and I think maybe a shoe percent. No Like, ah, so I’m like I’m doing drug. September now we’ll be doing drug 10 years. So I’ve kind of like seen pretty much every type of Queen there is out there. And when I started my drug house mark, yeah, two and a half years ago. Honestly, the main reason that I started it was because I wanted to drive home me. And I wanted a safe space for me to be in because I had really gotten so rundown and tired and exhausted by being in what I think should be safe spaces, ie, a dressing room or on a stage performing. And just having either queens or performers are like gays in the audience, like, critique or raise our batch or trying to get me off the show are like, just be really hard, but I never, I never sorted on I never will. Because as queer people, we spend so much of our lives feeling isolated, or feeling different. And then we come out and we get to, like, enjoy these spaces and enjoy each other’s companies. And what happens all the time, which really upsets me is suddenly we’re tearing each other apart or tearing each other down, when we should be supporting each other lifting each other off and going, you’re okay. Like, you don’t have to be all Kumbaya and best friends each other. That’s not that’s not human force. I’ve just I’ve just never understood tearing someone else down, especially when it’s something like drag, or being you know, dry King or club kid, like, we are so brave going I putting makeup costume on, and like walking down the street and walking in and also performing. Like it’s it’s fierce. But it’s also quite brave, because it’s like, it’s really putting yourself out there. So to tear each other down. It makes no sense to me. And when I started my house, I mean, it was totally by accident, it was in Cork City, I’d come back for it, we’re supposed to be just one summer. And I was never really involved with the prides here. Even though I’m the main queen in the city, a lot of the priorities would have, again come from this rival rebar, or like people associated with this. So I decided to run like a one off night, which has evolved ball thinking that no one would calm and I thought it did so well. And it was just such a refreshing atmosphere of this is so different, like straight people, gay people queer, everyone’s together, dressing up, and like rocking the runway and just being so silly and loving. And out of that came to New queens. And then I decided to run a different event the next month, which was a cabaret, and then another queen or two. And now we’re like at the stage where it’s, you know, a monthly combination monthly show and we’re doing stuff around the country. And we’re still it’s still very grassroots, like it’s all done by ourselves. And we’re still climbing bias. Even also, the group of Queens were known in Ireland for being very friendly, and very like inviting. And there’s still pockets of Queens around the country who are very like Cassie and capacitive. That’s something with with my own drug that I really tried to change. Other law I tried to change people’s perspectives that we can be carried by also tried to change queens attitudes and behaviours. When they’re on my show. It’s like luck, we might not come out as best friends. But your professional does not like waving caddy. Like, I don’t care if you’re like doing Dr. 10 years, or one month, or you’re dragging or your drag queen. No one’s better than each other. And a lot of people come out of my show with a much nicer attitude. And I quite like that though. I feel like through the show where we’re doing good at least and also like creating this really fun atmosphere for us. And don’t get me wrong. There’s queens on my show who like I kale, and we kill each other without just because you just want the best of them and ask. And just like I think every queen is like, you know, when you got a really good gig or good job or you look absolutely stunning. Yes, you go. Yes. Congrats. Like you look so good. But you’re still secretly like, Fuck, I want to look better. Like I want that gig. You know, we just take it with a pinch of salt. Like, as long as that’s something you’re aware of. And you’re and you’re not going Ashford later to be negative like I’m fine you know?
K Anderson 49:09
Yeah, I guess so. I mean all right, speak so much By the way, no name theory, but like so being Captain Obvious like that that bitchiness comes from a place of insecurity, obviously. Oh, but do you not think that like by having houses you’re kind of perpetuating that competitiveness.
Candy Warhol 49:30
So um, a lot of people so when I created the like my dry cleaners we were redid the first draft guys in Ireland to start with so we would very much not be a dry cast that you might associate with in New York and in a ballroom scene where it’s it’s very like competitive. And so I have like two vote balls every year one in Cork, one in Dublin for prides. And then in between that we have our shows, and even at the football from day one people are so nice. When they come in, and then I’m straight on the mic, and I’m like, Look, we’re not in New York, we’re not on the ballroom scene, I know there’s not going to be desktop left, right and centre. But if there’s a category that you want to walk, walk, and if your shirt or if you’re amazing, everybody in here needs to cheer as layers equally. And from day one, it’s just set such a lovely like atmosphere at my gigs. So people know, when they’re coming to see us that it’s fun. And like, it’s gonna be a fear show, but it’s fun. And that’s what we’re known as, like when people in other cities like talk about like, the highest of Mach, yeah, they know that, like, we’re really good standard of drive, but we’re also bonkers, crazy, and really, really fun. Because we’ll go out there and we’ll do a dance number and like some voguing, but then we go straight into like, a skirt. And like a comedy section, and I just, I’ve always tried to have that mix. I’ve never really, I mean, yeah, if I’m watching a drag performance, she’s fierce. And it’s Calcutta, Calcutta, Calcutta. Boom. And that’s her thing. Great. I do find that like, funny. Or sorry, I just find that fears. But I find it more endearing and relatable. Like when a queen is, I don’t know, more funny and silly and friendly. I’ve always. Yeah, yeah. I’ve always believed a drag queen should be the life and soul of a party. Okay, why? Why would you book a queen? Or go and see a queen? If she’s being a bitch and sounding the corner giving you a snarl? And that has always been in my head. That might
K Anderson 51:28
be your thing. But yeah, I think so. Are there other houses then in Ireland?
Candy Warhol 51:33
lowly now? Yeah, there’s like smaller houses coming up on the scene of like, newer younger queens.
K Anderson 51:39
Are you like, totally want to be the best? Right? Oh, yeah. So then how do you get that balance right? Between additive nurse and I think always been like, you will die if you’re against me? Yes. No, I just just
Candy Warhol 51:58
like, I mean, I’m like that anyway, with my drag, like, I’m always like, Wow, she’s great luck. Now, I need to be 10 times better. So I will never one thing that I will never do, unless use this to my girls as well never copy another queen. And it’s very important to be aware of what other performers are doing and what other club Knights are doing. But don’t let that affect your own hours, or what your bears or your own brand. So I mean, that’s easier said than done. there’s times where you’re scrolling through Instagram, and someone’s doing really well and you’re see their boys, for her. For me, it’s always trying to pink five or 10 steps ahead. And with my club nights on my shows, I just come up with themes that I think people are just going to love and really enjoy. And I tried to come up with performances that I’m going to do and I feel like people are going to like, absolutely love. And to be honest, sometimes I think it reads in a club night, or performance or like a group of Queens, when they’re actually creating the knowledge or performance to go out of their way to be like, hey, look at us, we’re the best, or be really authentically themselves and enjoy what they’re doing. And I feel like when it comes to my own drag on what I want to come up with the club mates and the group numbers and things like that, I just go, Okay, we’re off to the very end. That’s active, unlike not worry about what’s happening. But one thing that I’ve always maintained, is that I think we’re really polished and really fierce. And I’m really well put together, but also shit. Like that’s that that’s what I’ve always never wanted to let go of, because when we first started, I suppose this brings us back to just pay races and stuff as well. I personally just love a good grimy, like, shitty space. You know, and I I’ve always wanted to when I run my nights, I like finding a radio unusual space. I’m putting the Dr. Show on in there. So for the first year, we’re in this really tiny old man’s Park and cork called the poor relation. And we were able to fit 60 or 70 people in there, but we’d squeeze 100 I never more would be sitting on the floor. And the sound would go every five minutes. And then like it was just so bad. But it’s so good. And I’m so special because it was really the first of its kind in the city. Just this really bonkers alternative drive. Nice. And then obviously it’s gotten bigger. So we’ve we’ve climbed climbs, boys, I’ve always maintained that. Look, there’s something about chipping on Polish burritos. And I think that’s our thing. I mean, sometimes the curtains open in 10 minutes, but we’re behind the curtain going walk choreography we’re doing or like why don’t we do? Yeah, no. And I just always joke about that on the mic. And I think people really relate and they really like that. And I’ve always said to the Queen’s as well when you’re walking around that club, say hello and smile and thank you for being there and ask them how they’re having a good night because the reason they’re they’re divorcing When they’re they’re paying your wage. And like if there’s nobody there you want to be working on, you need to make sure that those people are going to come back and enjoy you and enjoy your show. So when people come to our to my gigs or talk to the market our gigs, I just like to have the best time and leave feeling that they were a part of that show as well.
K Anderson 55:19
So we are going all over the place. And I’m keeping you quite late. So let’s go back to instinct. Let’s go. That’s good. Let’s go right back. I love that. So were you working right when it closed? Yeah, I’m What did what did that feel like?
Candy Warhol 55:40
I remember being so upset, because I was such a specific time that I closed as well, because it closed the weekend of Halloween, which was like, so homophobic. I remember being in college. So I would go to art college America Monday to Friday, and I would be up there in the evenings after college like designing the posters. And there wasn’t a huge lot of social media. But I would be doing, you know, posting what I call it and stuff. And I remembered that weekend would have been our Halloween party. And just getting the call going, Okay, you’re not going back to work. You’re getting like a week. Yeah, you’re getting a week’s wage, the place has been cleared. I wish I should I really should have seen that coming. Because again, the bars that this group owned, were going into liquidation. And they were closing that right there. And they were bringing Austin going like, do you want extra pocket money? Do you want to help? Let’s close the bar. It’s just that we were constantly told you’re doing great. And we were kept open at least four or five months later than the rest. So we were not very busy. But we’re doing okay. And I definitely knew it wasn’t going to last quite long. But for it to be closed, like when often you know, not notice. And I was able to say goodbye to my friends, I wasn’t able to say goodbye to the space, I wasn’t able to even go in and get like all my CDs. You know, and I remember I had like art, like from you know, like my college interview. Like I’m the attic because I had become that space where I would just go in on a Monday when it was close and just draw stuff like that. So it was just a largest taken away from us really quickly. And I remember just being really scared. Yeah. And then just having to try and find a job to get me through college. See, I’ve never been so sad.
K Anderson 57:24
So so I know. It’s not really the point of the story. But did you get your CDs back?
Candy Warhol 57:30
Dude, I got my super I don’t think I did, I thought I mean, I would have had a collection of them with me. But I remember like open the DJ thing like most DJs dude at the time, just like lots of scattered CDs and like, just like posters and just stuff that I mean, I would say to go back and I would have just been like a collector’s dream for that time, your eye posters for the drag shows and just like all the CDs and like the radio was tax and things like that were just like taken and thrown out. Because the funny thing was, it was so there was a really, really tiny gay bar on the opposite side of the city. They bought it. So they opened it with the exact same name, which was so confusing. And now it didn’t last that long. I think it lasted six months. And it was also quite CD. Now I say CD or CD. Like we were just like this camp gay pop club. They had more like like the turns like smoking area into like a dark room. Like, like had a cage and all that type of stuff. It’s like obscene nonsense going for like a tiny lifetime. Like, why would they thinking but people thought I still worked there. And I remember being like, No, we don’t work. And they’re like, I have nothing against that. But like at the time being Asian, like no, I don’t know, like, I don’t do that. And I remember just being so sad because it was just like the real closing of a chapter on I remember before I ended up in return for a couple years. A few weeks later, I just got a job in a bar in Limerick in the time that I was in and I lasted three days, because it was so strict. And I was like this is not the foreign buyer experience that I’m used to
K Anderson 59:00
what do you mean accomplished girls aloud
Candy Warhol 59:03
play on either the dress code, I mean, I was at that stage of you know, being a fashion college and dressing like absolutely so stupidly but like at the time. I mean, I think that everybody when they’re 18 to their early 20s just go through a phase of like just dressing her if they want and I would have like dead or alive cassettes or like vinyls like around my neck and like back with like so stupid like UV page and just like really enjoying myself like dressing up each each Saturday night that I was working and it was just a really fun special time. So I think we’re not closed it was it was quite sad for me. And I finished the year at Irish in college and I had gotten like a part time job in retail. And then I moved to Dublin for two months for the summer. And there was a there’s a very famous bar in Dublin called the doors and they would have a really regular drug shows and years later I would have become one of those queens but I that summer I remember just going to drive shows three, four. Like the week, when I went back in September, I knew going back into September, I was like, I’m going to start running those club nights I was working, I love working on ideas wise in the old instinct in college. And that’s what started my drag career bush. So I didn’t like lose, like the wants to do events and stuff, which is having this like, really faab space taken away, there was just so suicides. And I mean, I can’t say much about the other buyer, that kind of, like, pushed us out of business because it’s still open, and some of my friends work in there. And, and that’s great. But on its end, it’s much more of a game and you know, but it’s, at the time, it was much more of like a business corporate decision, you know, like, it’s, it’s a bar that’s owned by a chain. So it wasn’t this kind of like, little grassroots level bar being run by like a little queer family. It is now but at the time, it was very, like, I just felt very personal. Yeah. Not being taken away from you as an 18 year old.
K Anderson 1:01:00
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like cuz. Yeah. There’s that sense of ownership, isn’t there?
Candy Warhol 1:01:06
Oh, completely. Yeah. And it was also just like, a really like, exciting time to be like, in charge of things, john, like, just up so proud. Like, yeah, it wasn’t like doing that well, but I bring in friends in and going, I can run a club and i and i can dress this and you know, I can get my keys. I bring my room like put like free drink. I remember at the time, and I probably shouldn’t say that. We can laugh about it now. But there was a girl who I hired. And her very first night, I poured her so much drink while she was working behind the bar. She ended up in a&e. We laughed about it afterwards. And we’ve laughed about it years later, but she woke up in the middle of a strange she’d like ambulance came she woke up an AMA and I was like well happens. You know, it was my measurements. I was never properly trained. So like anyone who would I mean, people would come up to me to get served because I would just be like doing the measurement. I just didn’t know what I was doing. This looks right. That’s right. I’m never getting like triples that have a single so. So funny looking back to Parker bankrupt. I know. That was honestly the least the least serious thing that was happening among that bar group was I wouldn’t say too much. Besides Bananarama and free drink going missing. There was a lot more serious things going on, I think that I didn’t really know much about I mean, I didn’t care. I was just more like, is the virus being open? And did we get to like play upon anything, you know?
K Anderson 1:02:47
Did you ever go to instinct bar? Well, if you did, I would love to hear from you. Please share your stories and anecdotes and any photos that you might have. through social media. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter under the username K Anderson music. And you can also find out more about candy by following her on Instagram. Her user name is candy Warhol queen. Last spaces is not only a podcast, but a concept record as well. I’ve been writing songs about queer venues and the people who used to live their lives there. And we’ll be releasing songs over the next year. You can hear the first single well groomed boys, which is also playing underneath my talking right now on all streaming platforms. If you like this episode, I’d really appreciate if you subscribe, left a review on Apple podcasts or just told people who you think might be interested in finding out more to I am K Anderson and you’ve been listening to Lost Spaces