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Cast your mind back to the year 1999 – we were all worried about the Y2K bug, there’s this new cartoon called Spongebob Squarepants, and the queer folk punk duo Bitch and Animal release their debut album ‘What’s That Smell?’. One of the songs on the album, ‘Drag King Bar’, documents the band’s misadventures at a night called Club Casanova, which was a weekly drag king night held at Velvet in New York City.
I was lucky enough to nab some time with Bitch, who is in the midst of touring her latest record ‘Bitchcraft’, to find out about that bar and the make out session with drag King Murray Hill that inspired the song. Along the way we talk about how Bitch and Animal were first discovered by legendary singer/songwriter Ani Difranco, a roommate from hell, and what it’s like having a pretty much ungoogleable name…
Bitch 00:00
You know, I like to say I’m not the woman My mom wanted me to be. I’m very much gender non conforming, because I’m not the lady that society wants or expects of me. So I do love these, you know, new nuances that we have in the non binary thinking.
K Anderson 00:17
Hello, I am K Anderson and you are listening to lost spaces, the podcast that mourns the death of queer nightlife. Every episode, I talk to a different person about a venue from their past, the memories that they created there and the people that they used to know. cast your mind back to the year 1999. Which, to be honest, shouldn’t be that difficult because I’m pretty sure it was only like six or seven years ago. Let me help set the scene. We are all worried sick about this thing that we keep hearing about called the y2k bug. There is this new cartoon on TV called SpongeBob SquarePants. And the folk punk queer duo Bichon animal have just released their debut album, what’s that smell. And one of the songs on the album drag king bas happens to document the band’s misadventures at a night called Club Casanova, which was held at velvet in New York City. I was lucky enough to nab some time with bitch who is one half of pitch and animal if you didn’t get that already, who is currently in the midst of touring her latest record, bitch craft. This was a really fun little chat. And although I can’t promise you we stayed on topic the entire time. I mean, you’ve listened to this show before, right? Like you know what you’re getting yourself in for, I did manage to find out about the makeout session with the drag king Murray Hill that inspired that drag king bar song, and I think you’re gonna really enjoy this story, shall we get into it?
Bitch 02:31
Well, first, let me say that it does not surprise me that people don’t know about drag kings. And you know, we know a lot about drag queens. And you know, I do think that’s related to our misogynist culture and lesbian invisibility. My experience was, the drag king scene at that time was booming. And yes, as far as like, the legacy of drag kings, it’s interesting, because, you know, when you’re in your 20s, you think you invented everything
K Anderson 03:03
I did, what are you talking about?
Bitch 03:07
Right. We just, we made up the entire gay culture, right?
K Anderson 03:10
You would mean,
Bitch 03:12
nothing for us? So, of course, you know, I had met some of my elders, you know, these were all people that I would see around, you know, older butches, et cetera. So, you know, it felt like we were part of a legacy, but then, you know, making it into this kind of like campy performance, a queer event happening around it. The drag king scene at that time, I feel like and maybe it was just my own delusion, but felt like it was very much a thing.
K Anderson 03:46
Okay, so let’s take a quick step back and talk about why you were in New York. Was it to make it?
Bitch 03:54
Yep. Animals from New York. And we had met in Chicago, we were both studying acting at DePaul in Chicago. You know, as soon as we met, we had just this instant psychic connection and started playing music together. And finally, over the course of a couple of years, started playing it, you know, art events, art openings, whatever. And then once I graduated from acting school, we kind of started bitch and animal as a way to make our own theatre. So we always thought of bitch and animal as like a performance art project. As actors, we felt like this was like feminist theatre we were making, and we were doing it with instruments. So at some point, it was actually way later that we even ever referred to ourselves as musicians. So we started making this feminist theatre. we named ourselves bitch and animal. And we played one show in somewhere outside of Detroit. And we played that show, and we could tell we’re on to something And we literally to New York like two weeks later,
K Anderson 05:03
what do you how do you know you’re on to something based on
Bitch 05:07
how people responded? Based on? Yeah, audience feedback. You know, we were actors. And, you know, you know, when people are avoiding your eye contact after a show if it sucks, yes. And this one was definitely not like that people were very excited. And it just felt instant, and like instantly
K Anderson 05:27
affirmed. And so this sounds kind of delicious. So you just packed up and went there? Within two weeks?
Bitch 05:34
Yes. And just got shitty jobs and found an apartment, etc. Together. Yes, we were lovers.
K Anderson 05:41
By so you were working together and living together? Yes. Deeply less. Leaning, all in all. And so what do you remember from those first days? Like, did you retain the excitement, I guess, is what I’m asking. Because being an artist doing anything is a grind. Right? And yes, coming to New York and having that whole, like, I’m going to make it in New York, and it’s going to be this amazing thing. And then three months in being like, oh, yeah,
Bitch 06:13
what have I done? You know, it’s funny, I never had that come down. What have we done? I think I’m an Aries and I just have so much youthful optimism and energy for things gusting. You know, the bitterness wouldn’t set in
K Anderson 06:34
15 years. Oh, good. Okay. It’s there. Now. That’s good.
Bitch 06:41
But yeah, I do remember, we both animal worked at an ice cream shop, and I worked at a coffee shop. So my hours. I mean, I had to be there at like, 6am. And then we were going out every night, you know, because here we are discovering, you know, just a whole queer scene and making friends and you know, instantly threw ourselves into the queer scene there. So I seem to remember, you know, we lived so deep in Brooklyn that I would sometimes bring my violin to my job and then find somewhere just in the East Village to just practice in the days to then go out that night. I mean, it was mayhem. When I think back on it now, like what, you know, and then we will go sleep at a friend’s house because our apartment was so far away. I mean, we were just like, scrapping around. Did
K Anderson 07:31
you ever do the thing where you stay up all night and then go to work? Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Do you manage that? I mean, I mean, I did as well. So I don’t know why I’m acting like it’s Oh, I’m so innocent. I’m such a mystery. But oh, yeah. How did we do? Oh, how
Bitch 07:47
did we even now I’m like, Oh, my God, we used to go out. And, you know, we wouldn’t even go out, like leave the house sometimes till midnight. You know, to go out clubbing you know, now I’m just like, like, what was I doing? How Where did I find the energy? Insanity,
K Anderson 08:07
but makes total sense to your brain then? Right? Oh, yeah.
Bitch 08:11
The early 20s party or in me was? It was so logical.
K Anderson 08:17
Yeah. And, and so what? Yeah, what was that like in the first few months? Like, did you get traction as an act quite quickly? Or was it like, partying and figuring your way out?
Bitch 08:30
A little of both of those. It did feel like we got traction pretty quickly. I seem to remember playing at the well, Cafe, which is a women’s theatre space, which I believe is still there
K Anderson 08:42
for women, on women, women.
Bitch 08:45
Maybe, maybe, actually, and that was like our first official gig in New York, and we’re very excited about it. And just Yeah, as soon as we started, you know, things like playing at the dragon barn, you know, just doing those kinds of like downtown events. It all felt like we had a momentum very quickly. And then actually, we, okay, I invited this person from my high school to live with us in our Brooklyn apartment because she wanted to move to New York. For some reason. It’s as if I was like, Rockefeller, I was like, Don’t worry about rent, you know, whatever. Just come live with us come invade our living room,
K Anderson 09:26
or anyone listening. I am clutching my pearls at the moment. I’m shocked.
Bitch 09:32
And it proceeded to turn into like this nightmare roommate situation where she was like mad at us about our cat making us lock our cat in our bedroom because she was allergic and like, all stuff. And we heard about this town on the end of Cape Cod Provincetown, where everyone was gay, I suppose. And I’d say we had been in New York, maybe a year and a half and we left this roommate who had not paid $1
K Anderson 10:03
How long has she been there?
Bitch 10:05
Well, I would say at this point, maybe six to eight months, shit. Okay, so we left her with the recliner with the futon with the TV with the lease everything and we packed our cat into a U haul. And we went up to p town. And that actually becomes I think also another great space story because we started playing a free show and P town all summer. And that was what kind of led to our big break.
K Anderson 10:36
So I want to hear about the big break. But I also just want to focus on this drama with the flatmate. Right. Did you tell her you were leaving? Or did you do like a midnight float?
Bitch 10:47
You know what I? I can’t remember. Oh, we must have told her we must have told her because she took over the lease. So we must have you know, somehow made it okay with the landlord. She
K Anderson 11:00
waited until she was asleep and got her hand and made her for her signature. Like, have you seen her since then? No, we
Bitch 11:09
never spoke again.
K Anderson 11:11
Do you want to say anything? If she in case she’s listening?
Bitch 11:14
No. You know what? She she’s a brilliant artist. And I always believed in her art. I really did. I don’t know why I was suddenly like a patron. All of a sudden at 22 Working in a cafe. I’m suddenly a patron of the arts working my minimum wage job. But I believed in her art so much. And I wanted to help her get to New York.
K Anderson 11:36
Had you had animal met her? Was it just like, oh, by the way this evening?
Bitch 11:43
Maybe Maybe they had met at some point in Detroit. Maybe? We were wild.
K Anderson 11:49
Yeah, but I don’t know. Living with people. It’s just never a good idea. Have you met people before? I mean, come on.
Bitch 11:57
I know. Apparently I had. Apparently I had, I was just all in. Okay.
K Anderson 12:04
Okay. So you ran away from her? took your cat, which is very important. So thank you for doing that. And showed up in province town? What was that like in the 90s? Like, and also, if anyone doesn’t know, province town is predominantly gay male, right? I’m looking to
Bitch 12:23
us to be as much I see. Okay. That’s more recently, I’ve been going back there in the last, you know, five years because I think of it as one of my soul homes. And it’s way more male dominated than it used to be.
K Anderson 12:36
Ah, that’s interesting. Okay, so when the 90 Yeah, women around?
Bitch 12:40
Yeah, I’d say I mean, I feel like it was probably a little more male. But there were a lot of dikes there.
K Anderson 12:48
And so where did you explore? Where do you go? Oh, so
Bitch 12:51
we tried to get a gig at the lesbian club, you know, and she was like this, this has been booked for months, you know, and, you know, it was telling us whose book there and we’re like, we don’t care. You know, we just thought we were gonna rock up with our instruments and just land the gig, you know. And it actually turned out kind of perfectly, because we went to a few of the, like, official venue clubs. And they kind of laughed us out of the room. And then somebody said, Go, Go find jingles. So he’s the guy who owns the pizza shop. spiritists. And then also owns this restaurant across the street from it called boobless. And jingles. He’s still a pal. Love this guy. The token straight dude, business owner in P town, and we rock up to him. I mean, I’m sure you can only imagine the image, you know, of a young bitch and animal coming up. They’re all entitled and just like, yeah, we’re, you know, looking for a gig. And he was the first person who was like, Well, let me hear what you do. You know, nobody else had asked to hear a song. They were just like, who are you? rug rats.
K Anderson 13:57
Like, get out of here. Wait, hang on. So this is a dumb question. Oh, go ahead. I love those. So you didn’t like give them your demo? Did you just show up with your instrument? Oh, no. We
Bitch 14:08
had no demo. I just showed up with our instruments and like, you know, our amazing fashion. Wow. Oh, yeah. I would have touched on her platform. Boom. We’re here. We’re amazing. We just played the WoW Theatre in New York. Just clue and
K Anderson 14:26
he was like, okay, play for me. And then you just like, unzip to
Bitch 14:30
see here a couple songs. Yeah. Wow. So we played him a couple songs. And he was like, that’s pretty good. How about every Sunday night, we’ll do a free show. And it actually worked out perfectly because the culture in Provincetown, like they’re all ticketed shows, which means a lot of the artists which this is like the most humiliating thing and everybody who plays beatdown, complains about it, but you know, they have to like bark for their own shows, because they’re selling tickets, and it’s a very touristy town. So, you know, you’re not relying on press or things like that as much, because it’s just a new influx of people every week. So there’s always people standing on the streets, passing out flyers for their own shows, which is for any artists, lately humiliating. So he offered us a free show. So we were like, yes, he’s like, I’ll pay you to pay for the bar or whatever, I know when to swim. And it was gonna be a free show open to anyone. So we were like, great. And so we did it every Sunday. And if the word just like very quickly caught on, there’s this free show, you know, you don’t have to get to, you know, the whole thing. It just, it works so well, because of so many factors. But so we started playing this free show, and it very quickly became like, it became a happening. It was amazing. All of a sudden, us being left out of those fancy clubs was just like the perfect thing.
K Anderson 16:01
I’m so like, when you say it’s like a happening, and the fact that it was also like a holiday town. Did you have regulars? Or was it just this kind of new people every time
Bitch 16:11
we would have regulars because I think what happened is the word got around with the locals. So you know, they would bring their friends who are coming to visit, we had this group of like biker guys who used to show up every Sunday, you know, every time for it. I mean, we couldn’t believe it, you know? So it was a lot of locals as well.
K Anderson 16:32
And then you had a special guest. Sorry, I’m I’m pre empting what you’re gonna say next. Oh, our big break break. Yeah, why didn’t you tell me about it?
Bitch 16:42
Okay, so All right, let me just paint the scene is that this is not even a music venue. It was a restaurant. So every Sunday we convinced our friend Sara, she would bring in a whole sound system for a set it up. You know, we push tables out of the way of the corner, we had no lighting or anything. And it was all very like improv, you know, animal and I were always, you know, kind of writing songs live and it was very interactive with the audience, etc. So there’s the scene painted, you know, and we would pass a tip jar. And yeah, one night, Julie wolf came, or no Kate Wolf, Julie wolves twin sister, who’s a great musician as well brought her friend Heidi, who was Arnie’s merchandise person. So somebody told us after the show that Heidi was there, and we had by then made a tape. So we had five songs on a tape that I believe we had recorded that summer. I don’t know where or when we made this tape, but I’m pretty sure I remember drawing the cover of it in P down. So we had made a tape at some point. And so I gave it to Heidi, and said you know, on he’s one of my complete idols, like, I would love it if you gave this to her. And she did. And we got a call like three weeks later. Ah,
K Anderson 17:59
what was that lying?
Bitch 18:01
Oh, I almost jumped out of my pants. Skirt,
K Anderson 18:06
your pants pants skirt.
Bitch 18:09
In those days I only wear skirt.
K Anderson 18:12
But so what was the call?
Bitch 18:13
It was actually it was probably an email. You know, Pete town in general was such a launchpad for us to because we kind of created this scene there. Then we started getting like booked in places that weren’t
K Anderson 18:26
local and that were like actual music venues.
Bitch 18:29
Right or like there was some like queer conference going on in Pittsburgh and they had seen us in P town because it was a tourist attraction like people from all over we’re seeing us so me as the you know, all energy Aries started booking us a tour for that upcoming fall based on Oh, we got to you know show in Pittsburgh and a show in North Carolina. Like let’s make it a tour. So I was starting to work on that and yeah, I believe we got an email not from ani from her people just saying like ani heard your tape. She loves it. Do you want to open for her next spring and Amherst mass? And we were like, Yeah, I mean, just freaking out excited. And that’s what I rerouted the entire tour that I was already booking. We like finished out the tour did like an East Coast thing. And then Kate Wolf, Julie sister had agreed to produce a record for us because we’re like, we can’t play a show with ani without an album. So we spent the whole winter out in Seattle, you know, just quickly drove from Florida to Seattle, and made an album that we had in time for that first on the show and Amherst. Wow. And then we played that and then she started offering us you know, we started touring with her for the next four years. And we made an album with her and yeah, it really that really like changed my life as an artist, you know, and gave us a real career.
K Anderson 19:59
Oh, Thanks to a little pizza place in Providence
Bitch 20:03
jangles the original believer.
K Anderson 20:08
But wait, does that pizza place still exist? Every just completely? Yeah. Damn spirit. Absolutely against the spirit of this
Bitch 20:15
spirit rule. I know. I’m so. Sorry.
K Anderson 20:20
Okay, well, let’s go then back to the last place. Oh no, wait, hang on. It’s velvet last. Yeah. Okay, great. I mean, not great. Not great. It’s terrible. No, I
Bitch 20:29
know. But like, yeah. But for the purpose of this conversation, yes. And dragging bar, it was called Club Casanova.
K Anderson 20:36
And so we didn’t get to talk about your canoodling with Mary. What do you want to know? Just you know what? What happened? Who hit on who? What are your tips for flirting? All the usual?
Bitch 20:55
I don’t know. I’ve always been the person who is the lets it be known that I have a crush on
K Anderson 21:02
you. And how do you do that? I say a little wave a little wink. To rub yourself up against them without permission.
Bitch 21:12
Oh, yeah. Highly advocate for that. You know, back in those days, it was probably something very direct like, Hey, do you want to go in the bathroom and make out? I’ve never been one to beat around the bush. You know what I mean?
K Anderson 21:30
Oh, I can make a joke about brushes, but I won’t. You. So do you remember? Are you just saying like, this is probably what happened?
Bitch 21:38
Yeah, that’s probably what happened. I can picture pictures in the bathroom.
K Anderson 21:45
And that was all it was. And then you’re like, I have to go because I’ve got an idea for a song. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so like when that song came out, like when the album came out with that song on it. Do you remember that response from people when you were singing about a drag king? Ba?
Bitch 22:03
Yes. That was one of kind of, you know, our early hits. That was one of the popular ones. And yet people love that song. They love dancing to it. I think people outside the community were just like, Whoa, there is such a thing, though. I think it was fun for people to feel like, oh, that’s part of our culture that’s being made slightly visible. Um, yeah, I definitely remember a response to that song.
K Anderson 22:30
Did anyone respond to the use of the word fag within the song? And I say this. I’m not like saying this because I have a problem with this word. I think anyone listening to the sound can tell that it’s tongue in cheek. Right? But I’m just Yeah, I just I’m really interested in the evolution of language and how many people can struggle with certain terms that are used as slurs? Yes.
Bitch 22:56
Um, you know, at the time, I actually can’t remember I remember being brought up to me. You know, I feel like I was just so reckless in my youth in that way of like, that’s just how we talked. You know, my gay boyfriends. We use that word. And it wasn’t really until years later that I start to think like, wow, was I hurting somebody? You know, like, I don’t, it was never my intention. My intention was to, you know, I mean, I was just being so authentically me. And that’s how we talked. Definitely there’s, you know, quite a bit of my stuff that I look back on. And I’m like, ooh, in today’s climate, or if I really did that song, I would probably change. Understanding that people outside of that immediate culture right then and there. We’re going to hear that in a different way. You know, what more potentially what
K Anderson 23:57
it becomes? And this isn’t me saying like that, that’s not an appropriate response. But it becomes a bit like you’re policing your own thoughts. I don’t know
Bitch 24:09
what the idea of saying like I would change it. If I put it out.
K Anderson 24:12
Now. I think, like trying to future proof, everything you write by thinking about right now, how it could be interpreted in 50 years.
Bitch 24:22
Oh, yeah. And I was not living for the future in those years. I mean, I think a lot of us could relate that when you’re that kind of age, you’re not thinking about 20 years from now. I wasn’t thinking about, you know, even making an album. I wasn’t even thinking like, well, what is this gonna sound like, you know, this is the permanent, you know, version of this song. We were just throwing things around. And so, yes, there isn’t that policing. And, you know, I think just as we get older, we start to just be more conscious, I think, or more uptight.
K Anderson 24:56
Yeah. There’s been an interesting thing this tweakware Lizzo has released a song that that has a particular lyric on it that should never have been on that song ever. And I find it a bit hard to understand because it’s a major label release. And it’s been listened to by so many people before it got released. But after it got released, then people were like, Ah, it’s not appropriate that you use that word. And her response immediately was like, Okay, well, I’ll, I’m going to re record it. And I’m going to change that lyric. I’m sorry. And I don’t know how I feel about it. Why about her changing? I think the lyric should never have been that in the first place. I think that they’ve intentionally left it in. Because I can’t understand how anyone would not have like to have no one would have alerted or no one would have noticed. And then this kind of court of public opinion, has meant that she’s just like, done this one ad. But yeah, it’s complicated, because I don’t think she should have used the word in the first place. But I feel a bit funny about it.
Bitch 25:58
You mean, somebody should have stopped her or she should have never had that thought?
K Anderson 26:01
Well, I like you’ll have a better perspective on this than I do. Because in this country, that word is definitely a slur. And there’s no way that anyone would use it without knowing that it was a slur. But potentially, in the US, that’s not the case. And so she may not have been aware,
Bitch 26:19
I actually believe that she wouldn’t have and perhaps all the clueless people. I agree. There’s so many people that that would have gone through that. It’s hard to imagine somebody wouldn’t have caught that. But I can absolutely see how it didn’t get caught. Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah. Somebody actually called me out on something recently that I didn’t realise I’ve been doing, I wrote a little bit of a play, to weave together the tale of witchcraft. And so I’ve been doing it and like telling a whole like, autobiographical story. And I go through being a very young child with my mom teaching tap dancing classes in our basement. And then, you know, I go through growing up and then meeting animal and writing the pussy manifesto. And I say something about like, you know, the way we use the word pussy to mean something weak or lame. And I had never understood the word lame being an ableist snur. Okay. And, you know, my friend pointed out to me, I was like, oh my god, I had never even thought of that. And I’m not bragging that I had never thought about it, but I just grew up with that word being so something you just say like, Wow, it’s so laughs You know? And, you know, it was kind of a revelation to be like, Alright, that is. That is very ableist. So, yeah, maybe you’re more conscious than the UK about this stuff. I would not be surprised to
K Anderson 27:49
be into the UK.
Bitch 27:55
You know, my parents are English, right? Oh, no, I don’t. Oh, yeah. Coventry.
K Anderson 28:00
Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t know. Like, in this particular instance, I think it probably is the right response. I guess I’m just thinking about the implication and what it could mean, for the future. Of her changing. Yeah, yeah. I’ve heard changing and like how that impact on other artists and puts pressure on people to be moderated in their art.
Bitch 28:28
Oh, yeah. I mean, this is a huge issue. It’s, it’s interesting to hear that perspective, because I loved that, you know, she didn’t get defensive. I love that. She was like, Oh, whoops, I didn’t even realise you know, I’m so sorry. Which I thought was a great way to handle it. You know, instead of being like, Well, wait a minute. Yeah. No. But yes, I agree that the way we moderate our artists and take them, I mean, I’m in full swing. Yes. I mean, I have lived through my own versions of this. And it’s, it’s very painful. And it feels very, you know, sometimes very strangulating and anti art and anti art being part of a culture. I mean, it’s like, there’s a word that I used in some of my past work that is now thought of as a slur. And back in the day, it wasn’t. And so do we, you know, retro actively kind of punish people for using a word that in their culture and their, you know, do we 20 years later say, Well, you should have never done that. It’s like, No, we have to understand that language has evolved our consciousness of languages evolve. Everything’s always changing and we can’t be harder on our artists than we are on.
K Anderson 29:50
Yeah.
Bitch 29:53
You know, trying to expect people to be perfect and
K Anderson 29:55
it is something as well about the intention behind its use and of you Mostly that much harder to determine. And like from different vantage points, it’s going to look slightly different. But if someone says something in an offhand way, or in an intentionally provocative way, it doesn’t mean that they necessarily have that view. Right? It’s kind of right. The whole purpose of ice challenge. I
Bitch 30:19
mean, you’re talking a bit. Oh, yes, exactly the question
K Anderson 30:23
I had as well, like, how often do you worry about people never being able to find you on the internet?
Bitch 30:31
That has been let me tell you had the internet been around when we started? That has been so complicated, and honestly, it’s gotten worse in the last few years, like the censorship, of you know, quote, unquote, obscene language. It feels like it’s ramping up.
K Anderson 30:50
And so then just going back to the 90s, when you came up with the name, bitch, although is that your given name? Just double checking? No. Okay. And when so when you came up with that stage? You did say your parents were English? Yeah. And when you came up with that name, was it a problem? At the time? Did people find that difficult? It didn’t
Bitch 31:11
seem like and I mean, we were very obviously pushing boundaries. And I think that’s why we had very quick success. You know, I feel I feel like in a way, it was an advantage at that time. And we were so clearly coming from this very, you know, rebellious, DIY, very active and alive. Yeah, queer scene, that, yeah, it felt like it was an advantage, and memorable. And, you know, the whole thing. It wasn’t until a lot later, that it started becoming an issue. Like, I remember doing a theatre piece and Austin and the Postal Service, they had my picture right on the front, because I was one of their featured artists, or whatever, and it says, you know, bitch, blah, blah, blah, and the Postal Service refused to deliver that.
K Anderson 32:01
Oh, interesting. Crazy stuff. And has anyone ever had a problem with it from a feminist perspective?
Bitch 32:10
I mean, not that I’ve been made aware of, yeah, I know that, you know, some of my elders were very much taken aback when they would hear about me. And then when they would see my work, or come to a show, et cetera, it would make sense and they would get it that it’s a clear feminist thing. It’s not just me being disempowered, like, you know, yeah, you know, they, they understood that it’s coming from an empowered place. And I know a lot of my elders at first, you know, it would put up a wall. And now these days, I was just like, Yeah, well, bitch rhymes with witch. What can I do? I do a whole piece on this in my, in my show about naming myself that why I named myself that, you know, to me, it seems so obvious. It’s like, you know, this reclaiming of a word that used to insult powerful women who take up space. And in recent years, I think we’re, you know, all living in the same world here feeling like, you know, our as, as more and more happens on the internet and more of our life goes that way. It’s like, we are more policed.
K Anderson 33:18
Yeah. And we are being policed by each other. Which is the real kicker. So, let’s, let’s not leave it on that note, because I think maybe that’s a bit too dour. Let’s, I like that. circle back.
Bitch 33:37
Okay, let’s, let’s circle that
K Anderson 33:39
circle CI, use your intel. I’ve been practising my interview. That plucky young pitch in the 90s that had just moved to New York and was attacking the queer scene. What do you think she could teach you now?
Bitch 33:59
Ah, kind of makes me sad to think about, because the first thing I thought about was, there’s this, when I look at her, I see this wide open, open heart open optimist that threw myself into a beautiful, you know, queer handmade scene and felt very supported and loved and lifted up and pushed on by that. And so my first instinct was to say, she can teach me that that’s still there. That love and like openness and this welcoming, you know, and I do you know, with this Beechcraft release, like I have to say these tours have been very inspiring, and has given me another glimpse of okay, this this is open and loving and it’s reciprocal giving. And then there’s a side of me that’s like, does that exist anymore? Because when we talk about this, you know, the way we do police each other in the queer community, like I’ve watched over the years, my God, we eat each other alive, you know, or we can, or we seem to want to, and that has broken my heart a little bit to witness. So you know, yeah, when you first say that, I’m like, Oh my gosh, that feeling of like, it’s all still there. You can approach the world in that way. And it’s still there for you. Which I do feel like I’ve been experiencing, since this Beechcraft release. But I had retreated for a while, because of that kind of why isn’t our tendency to support each other and lift each other up, you know, is this capitalism is this. So anyway, that’s, that’s what I think she can teach me is that it is still there. And even if all of us sit back on the internet, and can critique each other, etc, I do believe at the bottom of it. We are a loving, supportive community that wants our artists to thrive.
K Anderson 36:18
Yeah, that really resonates with me, I think that I have always struggled to open myself up and be like, vulnerable, that’s probably not the right word, but like to be like, here I am. And this is what I have to offer because my assumption is always everyone’s going to be like yeah, no, thanks. And I guess I’m learning that that’s not always the case. But also if that is the case, so what
Bitch 36:46
right but the so what is is that maybe next time you won’t be like yes, here I am sharing myself all vulnerable. It does shut us down sometimes, you know, yeah. But then I think hopefully, right we we find the open doors and we find the people who are lifting us up and and like that vulnerable enough. And, you know, that’s who we stick with and
K Anderson 37:10
and we lift them up as well in the process.
Bitch 37:14
Right.
K Anderson 37:15
We’re coming deep now. I love Yeah, I’ve been thinking a lot about myself in relation to the rest of the world and how inconsequential I am, but also how important I am on this sound Solanki? Sorry, no. Does it sound so New Agey? Like what I what I say and do doesn’t matter at all, but it matters so much. And I have to get the balance between those two things.
Bitch 37:46
It’s so wild. Yeah. It’s a paradox. Yeah, it means nothing. And yet it means everything. But also, what else do we have besides our actions and what we make?
K Anderson 37:57
Well, that’s what’s on Netflix. Oh, yeah.
Bitch 37:59
That’s it. Thanks for bringing back the pain.
K Anderson 38:09
And so, my final question for you. You know, we’ve learned we’ve talked about what you’ve learned from your younger self, what did you learn from having access to that scene in the 90s?
Bitch 38:24
As a lover of masculine of centre, people, you know, I learned a lot about gender nonconformity. And, also, like, maybe there was, you know, some movie being made at the time of that scene, the club, Casanova stuff, maybe, you know, but it didn’t matter. It was like that we all gathered, there wasn’t some big club, it was like, you know, maybe 100 people every time or whatever. But the fact that we all gathered there and had this kind of ritual of playing with gender, you know, just being with each other and queer space, like it matters. It doesn’t have to become the next big TV show or whatever. Like, it’s still mattered. And, you know, I struggle a lot in my life with the invisibility factor of being a woman of being, you know, feeling like there’s not a lot of women being represented at Pride festivals, you know, you look at the lineups and you’re like, Oh my God, where are
K Anderson 39:27
we? Oh, there’s always an acoustic stage
Bitch 39:35
Oh, God kill me.
K Anderson 39:41
Do you have any memories of club Casanova or clubbing from your own queer scene that you want to share? You do? Well, if you do, then I want to hear all about it. Go to law spaces podcast.com and find the SEC Should I share a lost space and tell me all about what it is you got up to? You can also reach out to me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter where my handle is lost spaces pod. Find out more about bitch by following her on Instagram or Twitter where her handle is bitch music or on Facebook where it’s a little bit more complicated and it’s B dot tch music. So that’s pitch but without the eye and a dot instead. Cool. Got it? Yeah, brilliant, fantastic. And honestly, you do need to check out her new album pitch craft which I have been hammering and I absolutely love and if you’ve only got time to listen to one song, make sure it’s easy target okay. If you enjoyed this episode, I would really appreciate if you took the time to subscribe. Leave a review on your podcast platform of choice or just tell someone who you think might be interested in giving it a little listen to I am K Anderson and you have been listening to lost spaces.